Create an Amicable Divorce & Healthy Co-Parenting Plan with Special Guest Mardi Winder-Adams

Jackie Finneman is a 30-year family counselor turned parenting coach with more than 40,000 hours of working with children and families. She is thrilled to share behavioral strategies, supportive resources, and parenting stories from her own real-life personal and professional experiences. Parenting is a roller coaster, not a merry-go-round. We can deal with and overcome the behavior challenges within our home and set ourselves and our kids up for a successful ride. Has your roller coaster derailed? No problem. Listen in to get you and your family back on track. All right, welcome back. No problem, parents. Here's our third and final episode this month on divorce, the topic of divorce. You'll notice that in episode 91, we had Rosalind Sedak on and she spoke about child-centered divorce and making sure that we are putting our kids at the forefront, making sure that their emotional well-being is paid attention to,

and we're really doing the best we can for our kids. And then we had Jude Sandball on episode 92 and he talks, he's the dadvocate and so he's gonna help all you guys out there. And now today I have a special guest, Marty Winder-Adams and Marty is here for you moms. She really focuses on the mom side of coaching and she is the go-to divorce coach for high achieving women.

Women hire her to guide them step-by-step to take control of their divorce and significantly reduce the emotional and financial costs of the process. So if your mom going through divorce, she's going to talk today about when do you start thinking about co-parenting? How do you even talk to the other parent about co-parenting? What are some specific ways we can reduce conflict?

I mean, Marty does all these things and even helps you out with the financial burden and how to kind of keep the lawyers out of it and make this a really amicable divorce. Marty's an executive and leadership coach. She's a certified divorce transition coach and a credentialed distinguished mediator in Texas. Marty's helped hundreds of women navigate the divorce process and co-parenting challenges to reduce the emotional and financial costs of the process.

She's the founder of Positive Communication Systems, and in today's episode, she's going to help us create healthy, positive co-parenting relationships, reduce conflict around co-parenting issues, develop your own rules and expectations for your relationship as co-parents, thinking outside the box to make co-parenting work for you and the other parent, but most importantly for the kids. So I'm super excited to have you here today, Marty. Welcome to the show.

Thank you, Jackie. It's a pleasure to be here to get to speak with you again. You really have niched to help women who are divorced and you have a few different ways that you approach your coaching for women. So why don't you just jump in and tell us a little bit of your background and why you do what you do? Sure. Great. Well, thank you. And I appreciate the opportunity. So yes, I do work with women exclusively, nothing against the guys. I think that it's just easier. There's some, some divorce coaches do work with both men and women. I just find it easier. I just focus in on the women. I work with people before, during, and after divorce.

So a lot of the women that the ideal place, I think for people to jump into this coaching thing is in the, before they do any big decision-making in the divorce, before you hire an attorney, unless you're an expert at hiring attorneys, unless you've done a lot of work in the legal field. Unfortunately, the wrong attorney in a divorce is probably the biggest obstacle that most of my clients are overcoming. And that's not that they're bad attorneys. It's just they're the wrong attorney for the specific individual. So I work with, I help people make the practical day-to-day decisions, deal with the emotional stuff, structure their interviews with their attorneys so they streamline it, saving money because every minute you're in that office,

you're paying for it. Every email you send, every text, every phone call. So my goal is really to support women going through the divorce and then moving through that into the role as a co-parent because that's a big transition as well. So you've got the switch from married to single, but not really single if you've got your kids, because you're going to be in a partnership relationship moving forward.

And that partnership is raising happy, healthy children. So there are ways to do it that work well, and there's ways to do it that don't work so well. And I want to help people avoid those ways. So are you talking about if there's a mom out there, the relationship is not going well, they're thinking of divorce, or maybe they're separated, reach out to you first?

I think that that's helpful. And the reason I say that that is helpful is because having somebody to bounce ideas off and decide, first of all, is really the divorce what you want. So I'm not a therapist. We're not going to therapize the situation.

We are going to look at the practical side of it. This last couple of years since the pandemic has really put a strain on a lot of relationships. and I think a lot of people have been sitting there for the last two years, especially when we were literally like living in the same house, weren't leaving the house, working from home, trying to navigate all of that stuff. It was really stressful for couples. And I think a lot of couples got to the point where they thought I've reached my breaking point. Maybe they have, maybe they haven't. But what you don't want to do is start talking about divorce if you're not sure that's what you really want to do. The problem is you don't know how your partner's going to react, right? So if you go to somebody and say, hey, I'm thinking of a divorce, and that really upsets them, and you haven't thought about that and planned how you're going to approach that conversation, you can start off on a really confrontational foot from the very first conversation. And when those kinds of things happen, the chances of resolving things amicably and moving forward through just a mediation without having to go through all the course,

all the costs and the whole course of litigation through a divorce is very small because you've set the tone. And if you have kids, kids pick up on that conflict. So there's a whole ball game. How do you talk to the spouse or the partner? Then the other consideration is, how do you talk to the kids about this? And what's the best way to approach that? And again, I'm not going to tell you how to do it. I'm here to help you come up with a way to do this that aligns with your values, with your beliefs, and more importantly, with your understanding of yourself, your partner, and your kids, because you are the expert in your family relationship. You're also the expert in how to dissolve that partnership as a spouse and redevelop one as a co-parent. And you have to have that power to do that. The way you describe this all makes it sound like it could be super amicable and it doesn't have to be as confrontational as it often is? I think that more and more people are going through divorces where it's very amicable. I have worked with people who as a divorce coach who were already pretty much on the same page. They literally didn't even hire a mediator. They sat down together. They drafted out what they thought was a good idea. Then they hired an attorney. And I'm not a big proponent of hiring one attorney because an attorney only represents one person. So whoever paid the bills, even if you split it,

one of you is still technically the client. And attorneys are obligated to provide information in the best interest of their client. So even collaborative attorneys have a client. They're there to collaborate and to work together, but they still represent one person in that room. So, um, but off topic, off topic, but literally sit down and come up with an agreement, get it reviewed by an attorney turned into legalese language that suits the needs of the court.

And then they go. And I've seen people go through a divorce literally in a few months, um, and walk away and be really quite amicable, especially if they have kids. I have I have parents who do Christmas together, divorced, not the first year typically, but, you know, they do divorce together or they I'm sorry, they do Christmas together after the divorce. Some of them do Christmas together after the divorce with new spouses involved and step parents and extended family members.

I'm not saying everybody needs to shoot for that, but you can create the divorce that you want. you don't have to be mortal enemies adversaries you know that's that's an illusion I think that's created and the more conflict you're in the more you're going to spend in getting your divorce finalized I think when it's really hard is when you didn't want the divorce your partner did yeah it's hard to accept when you didn't want it you still wanted to make it work or if your partner was unfaithful, there tends to be this, you know, kind of tug of war, resistance, defense, blame, all of those kinds of things. Do you help people through that? Is that?

Yes. And I, and I want to, again, I think I've said this already once, so please forgive me if I'm repeating myself, but I really want to stress that I don't cross the line into therapy. I'm not a therapist. And so sometimes I do say to my clients, this is beyond my pay grade. If you're dealing with a lot of that residual hurt and maybe that sense of betrayal, those kinds of things, that might be something that is appropriate to see a therapist about. But that doesn't mean that you can't get out of making decisions. You've still got to make decisions. And if you're coming from divorce decisions from a place of, I'm hurt, I'm the victim, I'm wounded, I have no power in this relationship or no power in this decision-making process, you are not going to get the results that you want. So what I can do is sit down with you and help you decide, number one,

what do you want to do in a year from now? Where do you want to be? What do you see your life? What is your goal for your future? Because once you know that, then you can make the right decisions today in the divorce to help you get there. And what I find is people get tunnel vision is like, just let me get through the divorce and then I'll deal with what I'm going to do next. That is ineffective because it, it, you make decisions just to get the decisions made.

And then six months down the line, you've got buyer's remorse. You're like, I got really messed over in that divorce when maybe you, maybe you did get some bad legal advice. Maybe you made some bad decisions, but a lot of it comes from not having that sense of this is who I want to be six months, a year, five years down the line, this is what I want to be doing. So having that ability to set that plan, to do the pros and cons of different decisions, and to get some honest feedback, like, is this really in your best, even just answering the question, if you make this decision, is there any way that this is going to potentially hurt you?

Or are you making this decision because it's the right choice or because it's a way to get back at somebody, or it's a way to avoid having to make a difficult choice. You know, even not making a choice is a choice, right? Right. So having that, having that sounding board, having that place to having that time to make those considerations, I think makes a big difference for people. That's the feedback I get anyhow. Yeah, absolutely. If you are in a lot of conflict with your partner, what are some ways that moms can reduce that conflict? The first way is to limit the conversations. So have conversations about what you need to have conversations about. Anything to do with the kids, who, what, where, when, and how are we going to deal with the children, I think should be a priority. But don't get drug into conversations about whose fault the divorce is, who looked at what waitress in what cafe in 1998.

You've got to get out of the past. You've got to let go of that. I know this is a tough thing, and I'm not suggesting this is easy. I'm not trying to be flippant here.

But when you do dwell on those past things, you're probably not being able to move forward. and one thing I can tell you is if your spouse screwed up, they are not gonna tell you, you are absolutely right. I am the worst person in the world. I'm sorry I did this to you.

Now, if they do, that's wonderful, but a spouse is not typically gonna do that in a divorce, especially if they feel that they're being blamed for it. So letting go of that need to hear that apology or even to understand the reasons for the divorce, just accepting it happened is a tough thing to do. But if you work at it, you can learn to do that. And once you do that, you're in a whole different frame of mind. But limiting those conversations, focusing on just the important conversations to have about the kids. And if you're working with an attorney, letting your attorney deal with the negotiation stuff rather than you getting involved if there is a lot of conflict. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. So So there's another question I have about co-parenting, because I guess in some situations,

and I don't want to be more doom and gloom about this or anything, but in some situations, co-parenting just doesn't seem to work. And it seems like such a struggle. And you talk a little bit about the difference between parallel parenting and co-parenting. Right. So co-parenting is where two parents literally say, we are going to work as a team in the business of raising the best kids we can. So they support each other. They use, They have similar expectations at household, not identical, but similar.

They have, you know, they are willing to contribute to help the kids if they want to go to football camp in the summer or if they want to go to space camp or they want to, you know, participate in a sport or whatever. The parents are willing to work together to make these things happen for their children. So really is a business partnership relationship moving forward. Parallel parenting is where there's too much difficulty with the parents to have the conversation.

So literally like railroad tracks, they're going to work together in the same direction of moving their child forward, but they're not necessarily going to have that regular interaction with each other. It's a little more challenging because what tends to happen is that, you know, parallel parenting doesn't mean you're in lockstep with each other. So, you know, the other parent may be doing certain things at their house that you don't agree with, but they're not a danger to the child or they're not, you know, anything that raises any red flags or alarms.

So you just have to kind of agree that I'm going to trust that parent to do what I can, what he or she can. And then I'm going to honor that same thing at my home and continue on with this, everybody moving in the same direction. that does i want to i want to just stress this because i think this is so so important this does not apply neither one of these models may be effective if there is a history of abuse mental health issues or addiction kind of problems within the parents so i really i always like to put that precaution in there yeah different ball game to deal with um but you don't co-parents doesn't mean you have to like be besties and hanging out, going for coffee and doing things together. Like I talked about earlier, you can just really have literally a partnership about how to move forward with the kids. Got it. Good. All right. Good. That makes sense. How can parents stay in touch as co-parents with, you know, setting boundaries, using technology, keeping the lines of communication open and all that? What's your kind of best advice for how they can communicate, whether they get long or not? Yeah. Well, first, and that's a really good question because that's kind of a trigger point for a lot of parents. Because, you know, you don't, if you're, if you're an ex,

the last thing you want to do is have this ring in every five minutes with some piece of information. So I, there's a lot of great programs out there and I'm not technically like, I'm not trying to support any one program or another one that comes to top of mind is our family wizard. great program um it's a calendar system online um you can put medical information about the kids you can put school events you can do so so parents can literally log in and see you know for years in advance things that that where uh things are planned all the medical information for the kids special events things that parents need to share with each other is all in there i like that one even for parents that are getting along. If you, if you're tech savvy, you could set up spreadsheets,

you can use Google calendars, you can create your own system. But I think having it in writing is very helpful for everybody. Yeah, I love that. I think that's a good idea. Because even if you have to just you want to report on how something went over the weekend, when it was your turn to have the kids or whatever that you can put it in, in that app, and the other parent can read it, but you're not, I like that, not texting back and forth all the time, because even if you are co-parenting and you're getting along and all that, it still can get to be kind of too much and the rules can get blurry. Well, and that's the thing. And the other thing I would say is, you know, anything you text, any voice messages you leave, any written notes you leave for the other parent, anticipate that your kids are going to see it. So don't put down anything negative, hostile, anything in any of that documentation, just assume that your children are going to see it. And definitely don't, don't use social media as a place to communicate with each other. Even, I mean, if it's a positive thing, that's fine. But if it's anything that's possibly negative or anything, I would, I would really stress not using social media, but there's lots of other platforms. So just, you know, look on your, whatever, whatever system you're using,

whatever, Google Play Store or Apple or whatever, just Google co-parenting apps and pick one that works for you. Maybe setting a timeline, you know, like even we're going to schedule 20 minutes at on, you know, Saturday mornings at nine o'clock, we're just going to touch base and talk about, you know, what's going on with the kids, even zoom calls, or just a phone call, set those boundaries, and do it proactively and positively. And then nobody gets hurt, because everybody agrees to it before there's a problem that occurs.

yeah right no that makes that makes perfect sense so how can moms reach out to you what's the the best first step and um just even seeing if you're the right fit for them or they're the right fit for your your program absolutely so i have a website it's www.divorcecoach4women and the four is the number four and if they if you hop on over to there i'll scroll down to the bottom or part way through it explains kind of what divorce coaching is and and kind of the services that are offered. And then there is a link on there to book a free strategy session. And they can just go in there, click on that link and set something up that works out for their convenience. And then we'll sit down. It's no obligation. It's a free call. And it's really designed to just help you maybe overcome one challenge that you're dealing with and see if divorce coaching is the right fit for you. There's also a freebie on there about how to choose a divorce attorney. So if that would be of help, just grab that and use it as you will. I love that. I saw that on there that you have,

it's 10 questions to ask before hiring a divorce attorney. And I really hope that parents, struggling moms, moms that are just unsure, where do I begin? How do I do this? Or even if you're in the middle of it and you're like, shoot, I wish I would have known about Marty before. It's not too late. They can still reach out. Thank you, Jackie. I've really appreciated the opportunity Thank you.

Thank you for tuning in to the No Problem Parenting podcast. Join Jackie next time for more tips, tools, and resources that will help you become the confident leader your kids crave you to be. Who do you know that we could support on their parenting journey? Like this podcast, subscribe, share, or leave a review of the show.

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