Marriage Fitness - A Comprehensive Relationship Home Learning Program with Special Guest Mort Fertel

Welcome back to the No Problem Parenting Podcast where we choose to deal with and overcome the behavioral and emotional challenges within our homes. Hey everybody, I'm Jackie Finneman. I'm your host and today I have a comeback guest. Yes, that's right. I have a special guest that's back with me. His name is Mort Fertel. Mort was on the first time to talk about Sudshare, the company that he and his family have started that helps you with your laundry. It's like Uber for laundry.

And during our pre-conversation for that episode, Mort and I were actually talking about another company that he owns called Marriage Fitness. This is a company that is very close and near and dear to Mort's heart because really when he and his wife were struggling many years ago, you're going to hear about his story. And they tried marriage therapy and it didn't work. So This is for all of you parents out there who are maybe struggling with your marriage and traditional therapy hasn't worked for you either.

It's another option or alternative to helping you to save your marriage. And you're going to learn how it's possible to save your marriage, even if only one person is willing to work on the marriage. And I was super happy to hear that because most of you parents out there that have worked with me already, you know that I, while I'd prefer if there's a two-parent family home that I would work with both of you it's not always feasible or possible and it doesn't mean that just because mom and dad aren't on board with the coaching that things can't change and things can't improve in your relationships with your kids and same thing with the marriage so I was really curious about that and Mort's going to go into that a little bit today you know so here's the other thing that I loved about Mort and why I had to interview him with regards to marriage coaching.

He talks about how problems don't always need to be solved. And I absolutely love that. Remember, in No Problem Parenting, we say we give problems only as much attention as they deserve, and then we keep removing. We focus on the solutions, and we focus on the good.

Now, that's not to say that we skirt around problems. No, we deal with and overcome problems head on, right? And we only give them as much attention as they deserve because like Mort is saying in his marriage fitness program, focusing on making new things right is way better than rehashing and going over past problems and feeding those problems and keeping them, those problems center stage. So I'm going to introduce Mort and then we're going to get on with this episode.

I could talk forever about it. I absolutely just really appreciate and respect this guy. So Mort Fertel is the creator of Marriage Fitness, a relationship renewal system that's been used by millions, get that people, millions of people in marital crisis. In addition to his success with couples, he pioneered the Lone Ranger Track, which offers people with an obstinate spouse a path to reconciliation.

People from all over the world schedule private telesessions with Mort and seek his counsel by joining the Marriage Fitness Teleboot Camp, the most comprehensive relationship home learning program in the world. Mort Fertel is the author of Marriage Fitness Audio Learning System and the host of the Fix Your Marriage podcast. Over 3 million people have subscribed to his free report, 7 Secrets to Fixing Your Marriage. download it it's really good people i've gotten it myself mort is the subject of back from the brink a documentary written and directed by toros thomas which chronicles people in marriage crisis he graduated from the university of pennsylvania in 1987 was the ceo of an international non-profit organization and a former marathon runner he lives with his wife and five children including triplets in baltimore maryland all of the links to mort's information program book everything is going to be in the show notes. So listen in parents, you're not going to want to miss this one.

Well, thanks for coming back to the show Mort to talk all things today about marriage. Actually the last time I met you, we were talking about Sudshare and how to raise your kids to become an entrepreneur. And I learned during our conversation before recording the episode So that you had this marriage fitness business or program as well. And I was like, wait, what?

I've got to have you back on. So here we are a couple months later. And thanks for coming back to talk all things marriage today. Thanks for having me back.

I guess it wasn't so bad last time. It was actually pretty good. So let's jump. First, I've got to know, you know, how your career started.

I learned about the Sudshare business, right? How did your career start or shift you into this marriage world? Yeah, so I seem to have a habit of taking my personal experiences and translating them into businesses. So that is true here as well.

It really started about 20 some years ago. My wife and I had our own marital crisis. and um we uh the it started because um we had a son who died when he was about one week old and then we had twin daughters who also died oh my goodness and within a period of 18 months we lost three children and it was really really really stressful on the marriage um difficult for our whole lives, but, you know, particularly difficult on the marriage. And, you know, we reached out for help in all the traditional ways. My wife learned about Mars. I learned about Venus.

We went to therapy. You know, please repeat back to me, you know, exactly what I said, you know, did I understand you correctly? You know, those sort of traditional techniques. And to be honest, we were horrified at the quality of the advice that we were getting and the impact or the lack of impact that it was having on our marriage.

We just found that a lot of the strategies and techniques were silly. They were ineffective. We were sick of people asking us how we felt. We wanted real advice about what to do to make a difference.

I was sick of people asking me what I thought if I if I knew what I thought and what to do I wouldn't be here like I actually have any practical advice from it you know and so it was just such a horrible experience and we ended up putting aside oh and also it was also a very negative experience meaning that no matter where we went whatever books we read whatever advice we got we were always being asked what was wrong. And we found the more we talked about what was wrong, the more we were mired in the negativity of our whole situation. In the end, we found that our marriage was transformed not by fixing what was wrong, but by making new things right. It was by putting aside the problems and the issues and instead going to work building positive relationship habits,

creating connection and creating goodwill. At the end of the day, the solution to every marital problem, every marital issue is connection. When a husband and wife are connected, then the problems just dissipate. As one of my own students said, oh, I get it, Mark, the problems don't actually get resolved. They just dissolve. And that's exactly right.

and if you if you haven't experienced that it sounds almost magical or mysterious but if you've been through it that would resonate with you as yeah that's exactly what happens anyway we succeeded to reconcile our marriage and really fall in love again but again but we did it not by dealing with our problems or fixing what was wrong but by making new things right when we got through this we felt like we had a responsibility to like share what we experienced with the world. We also did some research on traditional marriage counseling and therapy and found that we weren't the only one having this experience, but that the effectiveness of traditional marriage counseling and therapy is pathetic. It's actually hard to believe that the industry and the profession still exists and that people still go for using this methodology despite the fact that it so rarely works. So I ended up doing a bunch of research. I wrote a whole book called Marriage Fitness, which is an alternative to marriage counseling. My wife and I created a new methodology for fixing marriages. We thought that maybe we would just print out a couple copies of the book, give it to our kids, and move on with our life. We didn't imagine that a whole movement would take place. The book was picked up by the Library Journal. It was on national media,

got national media coverage. It was endorsed by Stephen Covey and John Gray. It started to get all of this attention because of the new methodology. And then I ended up developing the strategies from that book into a more extensive and comprehensive program called the Marriage Fitness Teleboot Camp, which turned out to be sort of the main marriage fitness program that is, you know, that is on my website now. And that over the last 18 years, millions of people have used to save their marriage. So in a nutshell, that's you asked the question, like, how did I get into this? That was a little bit of back, you know, a shortened version of the history of marriage fitness. You just said so many things that I am thrilled to have learned and talk talk with you about today. You know, my story is I left a 20 year career as a counselor,

not because I don't believe in counseling and therapy at all. I just felt like we were focusing so much on the problem. We were diagnosing kids and we were, you know, diagnosing, we were led to believe. And I think this is true in part that once you have a diagnosis, you can treat or you can, you know, you kind of know what you're dealing with. And that was all great and fine.

However, the measurable goals and the treatment planning and, you know, all those things that we had, we were required because insurance was paying and insurance was medical model. And all of these treatment plan goals, we, it was like we were every day we were having to, or every session we were having to talk about how much better your problem was, but we were addressing the problem, not talking about, you know, like the good things that were happening or focusing on the strengths or the connection or, you know, that sort of stuff. And so it's really validating to me more. And so maybe this is just my ego and, and my self-esteem I play here, but that just in your experience, you and your wife that you guys were like, Hey, wait, this isn't, this isn't helping us. This is drawing us further apart. Right. And so thank you for being bold and putting and sharing that for one and not having any, it just seems to me you're pretty confident and don't have any issue kind of knocking the therapeutic field when it comes to marriage therapy. That's true. It's true. I do have confidence and I don't have any issue that that's not to say that there aren't some good mental health professionals, counselors, and therapists out there. There are, but in general, there are, in my opinion, systemic flaws in the methodology. I mentioned one of them. I'll mention another. The training, and you went

through it, so you can validate this for me. If I'm not mistaken, the training teaches and emphasizes the importance of not passing judgment, being amoral. And to me, that's ironic. People are coming to us because they need help. They need help because they're off course.

In my experience, and it's been decades now, thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of cases. In my experience, people's marriages are messed up. It's not an accident. It's not a mystery. They're messing them up. They don't know how they're messing them up. That's why they've come to me. My job is to assess what are they doing wrong and how do I get them on the right track. And we're not going to get there if I ask them, you know, how do you feel? And well, how do you feel about that? And well, what do you think about that? And if what they felt and what they thought was on target, they wouldn't be speaking to me. I'll give you the, this is an extreme example, but it's a cute, funny story. And it makes my point, even though I admit it's an extreme example. I was doing a full day intensive once with a couple in Detroit. And early in the day, I could sense that there was something going on here that wasn't being revealed.

So I asked to speak to each of them privately for a little bit. And when I got a chance to speak to the husband, I said, you know, I just feel it. There's more to the story here. Tell me what's going on? He said, you're right. He said, I'm having an affair. I said, okay. I said, well, you're here for me to try to help you with your marriage, right? He said, yeah. I said, well, you got to stop. He said, what do you mean? I said, well, it's not complicated. You're having an affair. It's wrong. Stop. He said, wow, nobody ever told me that before. So I said, well, wait a second. Didn't you tell me in the first few minutes of our session when I was getting some background information, didn't you tell me that you've been in therapy for six months and you go every week?

He said, yes. I said, are you telling me your therapist never told you to stop the affair? He said, no. Did you tell me your therapist never told you this was wrong? No.

if it makes me feel good, then maybe it's okay. I was like, when I got my head out of my hands, I'm like, and this man wanted me, he needed me to tell him, stop this. It's unbecoming of you and destroying your marriage. And here he was with a professional for six months. He wasn't with me for more than six minutes.

six months nobody told them to stop yeah you would think that's just a captain obvious that he should know better right and just should know to stop oh definitely not true though people that are in affairs you know they've done tremendous mental gymnastics to try to rationalize what they're doing you know most people in affairs if you ask them before they got married and before they had an affair, if an affair was wrong, they wouldn't hesitate. Of course this is wrong. But when they're in the affair, their worldview shifts and they don't see it as something they're doing wrong. They've come up with some explanation, some rationalization.

Sometimes I'll even be speaking to people and speaking to them, I'll ask them about, quote, their affair. And they'll say, I'm not having an affair. What do you mean? I thought You just told me you were, you know, that you were sleeping with such and such a man or such and such.

Well, yeah, but it's not an affair. You know, I separated from my wife three months ago. Oh, oh, oh, wait a second. Let me get out my dictionary again.

Are you telling me that separation is now equivalent to divorce? You're telling me your marital status changed? But in their mind, they just rewrote the definition of marriage. They just rewrote the definition of infidelity because they separated or because they told their spouse, they don't have to be separated.

I mean, I'm making that up as an example. You know, I told my mom, I told my husband I was unhappy. Yeah, therefore. Oh, are you telling me that now gives you license to have an affair?

Oh, it's not an affair. He's my boyfriend. No, he's not your boyfriend. He's your mister.

that's why when uh when the story about Jeff Bezos broke Jeff Bezos marriage broke okay you can google this if you want Mortford Mortford Tell went ballistic on the media when the when the Jeff Bezos story broke why because the media said that Jeff Bezos was dating Lauren whatever her name is Sanchez. Dating? What do you mean dating? And they called her his girlfriend.

I went ballistic. He's not dating her. He's having an affair. And it's not his girlfriend.

It's his mistress. He's married. Hello? Married. You know what that means? You know, just because they announce on Twitter that they're getting divorced, you know, and by the way, did anybody actually think that it was his girlfriend the day after he announced on Twitter that he's getting divorced that obviously he's been having an affair and what and that had nothing to do with the I mean I was I just was so angry because when the media does that they give everybody else that looks up to Jeff Bezos as a hero an excuse now to behave this way and to redefine things in this way And so circling back to my point, the second, what I believe is a fundamental flaw in the counseling and therapy arena is that on the one hand, we're training people to be amoral, which means to not pass judgment and tell people what they're doing is wrong.

But the whole reason why they're in front of us is because they need help and they need help most of the time because they're behaving in ways that are wrong and proper and appropriate or ineffective and they need to be told. Yeah, amen. So when people come to you, and they say, you know, like this, let's use this example of the affair and I want to get to another one here in a minute but the affair, what, where do you start you start with saying, stop having the affair.

And then what? Well, it depends. You know, sometimes like in the case of this man, I think he really wanted somebody to tell him that what he was doing was wrong and he should stop. And he was able, and that was it. Like it was from there, he was able to stop. In other cases, then it would start a whole process of helping them stop because they're addicted, right? They're now emotionally and physically involved in this relationship, right?

They're getting nothing from their relationship at home. So this affair is like a drug. And now they need help, you know, getting off the drug. Or there could be a step in between also.

It could be that there's an extensive discussion required about why I should stop. Why is this wrong, right? So I just, I went kind of quickly, but I just gave really three different scenarios there. One scenario is you tell a person, you got to stop, this is ridiculous, and they get it quickly and easily.

Another scenario is they're open to it. Let's discuss it. Why is it wrong? Well, you know, how is this hurting my husband or my wife if they don't know?

You know, why is this inappropriate if I'm separated? Um, you know, it could be a whole series of questions and discussions. It could be, they have to be walked through a, you know, a rational thought process that helps them come to the conclusion that they should come to. And so, so that's the second scenario.

Then a third scenario is that, you know, even if they want to stop either because they get it right away or because they've been walked through that process, it's not so easy, right? All of their fulfillment and satisfaction and ego strokes are coming from this affair, right? How do I stop doing something? My life is a nightmare, Mort. This is the only place I get any pleasure. You're going to take that away from me? That's not so simple, especially when And it's not like a drug is inanimate that doesn't keep coming after you.

A mistress or a mistress does. You could sit down with a mistress or a mistress and say, look, I got to stop this. This is over. I'm going back to my husband, my wife.

I'm going to work on my marriage. And it's not like they're going to say, oh, OK, I respect that decision. Good luck. No.

The phone keeps ringing. The texts keep coming. The visits, the are you sure? And it's not always so simple.

Affairs don't happen in a vacuum. They happen in the context of a broken marriage. In other words, affairs don't lead to broken marriages. Broken marriages lead to affairs.

And so, in a sense, this is not an excuse or I'm not absolving the adulterer of responsibility, not in one iota. So don't misunderstand what I'm saying. but in a sense, the adulterer has a point when they say they're not getting their needs met. They're not. That must be true by definition or the affair wouldn't be occurring.

That's a bitter pill for the betrayed to swallow because it prompts them to take some responsibility. It doesn't mean that it's their fault, but just because something isn't our fault doesn't mean It's not our responsibility. There must be something missing in the marriage in order for such a situation to occur. And so both people, both the adulterer and the betrayed, have to take a serious look and ask, what is missing here?

And, you know, this is not a commercial, but if you need help with that, ask me. Like, there are people that can help you identify that. That's what I do. and you have to have the answer to that question.

You have to. Yeah, and actually I think this is a commercial for you, Mort, because that's one of the reasons why I do this podcast and bring guests on is people say, why do you do that for free? Or for what? It's because I wanna help parents.

I wanna help them become the confident leaders their kids crave them to be. And so whatever guests and resources I can bring that's gonna help that happen, make that possible for them, I'm gonna bring you on. This is one of the things we help people identify in the Marriage Fitness Teleboot Camp is, what is that thing that is missing? Because you have to be able to identify it so you can fill that gap. If you can't fill that gap, then you're not doing your part to get the affair to end, and you're also not doing your part to rebuild the trust. Sometimes people, the betrayed will think, well, the affair has to end first.

It's wishful thinking, and sometimes it works that way, and it would be nice if it could, and it's great if it can, but it doesn't always. And what are you going to do if you can't get the affair to end first? You've got to be ready and willing to do your part. And if you can fill that gap first, then it makes it much easier for the affair to end. I feel a little bad. I started out by putting responsibility on the betrayed. I really should have started, and I'm going to now, put responsibility on the adulterer. It's of course much easier to do that.

And I like to start there because it just lays a better groundwork. So it's true that affairs don't lead to broken marriages. Broken marriages lead to affairs. And it's true that there must be something missing in the marriage. And it's true that there's dual responsibility for whatever is missing. However, please don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I should never be misquoted. I am not ever giving the adulterer an excuse or a license to have an affair. I don't care what's going on in your marriage, how big things are, how bad things are, how big the gaps are, how much is missing. It is completely wrong and inappropriate to ever cross that line. Now, what I just said is obvious. I don't think we need to,

I really shouldn't even have to say it, but I feel like I should because I just don't want to be misunderstood. But it's obvious. I don't think you have any questions about that. Nobody would have any questions about that. Nobody would doubt that.

And so, you know, one of the keys to a successful marriage, just parenthetically, is self-control. In other words, an affair is an extreme example, but self-control is important in other ways also. Like sometimes people will think in a marriage that a successful marriage, successful racial relationship means that I can say whatever I want, whatever's on my mind. Hogwash, silliness.

a successful marriage means that i have a good filter that i think before i speak if if i said everything that was on my mind the moment it came to me my marriage would be in the trash because i don't always have the best thoughts and i don't always have feelings that i should share and the mark of a successful marriage is not that I can say whatever I want and express any feeling I have. The mark of a successful marriage is that there's a husband and wife that are able to exercise restraint based on intelligence that, you know what, that wouldn't be the smartest thing to say right now. You know what, maybe that's not a feeling I should share at this moment. And so self-control, I just gave two examples.

one was an extreme example which is adultery right i mean what why do affairs occur well there are many reasons we already we already talked about one of them which is that there's a gap in the marriage but i also just mentioned the second affairs occur because people lack self-control i mean this may sound strange for me to say but i'll say it because it'll help I think all the listeners. I've been married for many years, thank God, very successful, great marriage. And I've never, God forbid, had an affair. Does that mean that I've never had the opportunity? Does that mean that I've never been attracted to another woman for the last 25 years? I mean, could any man say such a thing?

right i mean anybody who does i think they'd be lying right well right man or women to be honest and so what's the difference between me and an adulterer well okay we might be able to list a number of things but along the lines of what i'm speaking about here i think one of the differences self-control, restraint, you know, being able to align my actions with my goals and my values, not my impulses. So just tying it back into what we were discussing, the, you know, the point here is that I don't care what's going on in your marriage and how bad things are. It never gives you license to fail in exercising self-restraint. And that's what an affair is. It's a failure in self-restraint. You were saying earlier about the justification and rationalization. I got a great story for you. Guy and his friend come into a bar and they each have a drink and they enjoy the conversation and they enjoy the bar. So they decide they're going to meet at this bar every day and have a drink. So they do for years and they get to know the bartender. One day, one of the guys passes away. So the next day, the other guy comes back into the bar and he orders two drinks and every day thereafter orders two drinks and the bartender says why are you ordering two drinks now he said well one for me and one for my friend who you know he passed away okay so years go by and every single day he comes in and he's ordering two drinks then all of a sudden one day

he comes into the bar and he only orders one drink and every day thereafter he's ordering one drink so the bartender says to him for years you've been coming in here having two drinks why only one drink now. He said, my friend, stop drinking. The power of self-deception, we don't appreciate it. It's enormous. And most of the ways in which we're screwing up our lives, we're oblivious to our role and our responsibility in it because of the way we rationalize and the power of self-deception. And I think it's all in an effort to self-protect, but it ends up coming back to bite us in the can, doesn't it? Yeah. Really not protecting anything when we're doing that. I want to make a point though, too, that there are times in a marriage where no matter how hard or how much, no matter how much one partner wants the marriage to work,

the other partner is not willing to participate. They've been there, they've done that, they don't see it getting better. Maybe they've already tried as a couple, you've gone to therapy time and time again, it hasn't worked, hasn't proved to help. And you just feel stuck. And yet they're not divorcing. Sometimes the other spouse is just not, they're like, I'm not, I'm not doing it. Does that mean the marriage is over? You know, thank you for saying that. Because of course, you know, I'm incredibly pro marriage. And I spend a tremendous amount of my time, my effort, my energy, and my career helping people fight for their marriage. And sometimes people will just assume that, oh, Mort Fertile, marriage at all costs. And it's actually not true.

I do believe that there is and can be a time and a place for a person to call it quits. You do have what's called the Lone Ranger track. And you're saying that you get results that that can also save a marriage unbelievable results and we um we talked already in this conversation about two fundamental flaws in marriage counseling and therapy and you just brought up a third the third fundamental flaw in marriage counseling is there is this underlying assumption that i need the couple to work with if one person goes in and says i won't help with my marriage the counselor will say well where's your husband where's your wife and if i don't have them like, what are you doing here? I can't help you. Really? And that's not the client's fault. That's your fault. I mean, why can't you help them? I can help them. A marriage is a system. It's like if you go into a chemistry lab and you take chemical A and you mix it with chemical B,

you're going to get chemical C. If you want to get a new outcome, something different than chemical C, you don't have to change both chemicals. I could just change one and I'll get a different outcome. A marriage or a family is a system, and the outcome, the result of the relationship is a function of the input from both parties in the relationship.

And if one party in the relationship changes the input, the whole dynamic changes. So this idea that, like, I can't change my marriage until my husband or my wife gets involved, it's just ridiculous. I mean, it's foolish. It's just simply not true.

I think it's one of the things people like to tell themselves so they don't have to take unilateral responsibility. Because of course, of course it goes without saying it's better if both people are in the program. And of course it goes without saying it's easier if your husband or your wife is trying hard to. No duh, like, do we even have to spend time talking about that?

but that's but don't use that as an excuse for trying to say that if that's not the case well then there's nothing I can do because that's just not true yeah if we were in a stadium or if we were in a stadium or an arena I'd be standing up and clapping like round of applause for that I believe the same thing more in my parent coaching oftentimes a mom will call me and and just typically it's the mom that makes the first call. And then we'll have this nice conversation and she'll say, okay, I want to get started. But does my husband have to be there? He works, or he's got a tight schedule. And I'll say, absolutely not. I think you're absolutely right. The conversation changes when one or both change. And very often, very often it's one person's unilateral effort that creates the motivation for the other spouse to eventually join in. Yeah, I was going to ask about that. Yeah. So like a lot of times when people join in the program, there are some of the times their first questions are about how do I get my husband in? How do I get my wife in? Do me a favor. Just employ the principles and practices that I'm teaching you and then watch them jump in. If people would take half the time and energy they put into trying to get their spouse to join them and put that into implementing the program,

their spouse would join. Well, let's get into that then before we wrap up today. We have the Marriage Fitness Teleboot Camp and you have the Lone Ranger Track or Dual Track, right? So tell us a little bit more about what they get and how it all works. Sure. So first of all, you can go to mortfortell.com and learn all about it. But the Marriage Fitness Tell Bootcamp is the main, it's the only and main marriage fitness program. It's a very comprehensive program and you get access to a series of videos that explain step-by-step how to go about turning around your marriage and reconciling with your spouse. If you're in the Lone Ranger track, you'll learn principles and practices you can implement unilaterally that will have that impact.

In addition to this series of videos, there's also about 100, maybe even more, 150 audio files that you can listen to that are recordings of previous Q&A teleconferences. I mean, in other words, at this point, there's no new question. After like 20 years, I've heard every question. And so I've recorded the questions and the answers for people to be able to listen to them.

And so that's included in the program as well. And then there is also a live Q&A teleconference. But if you feel there's something that wasn't covered in the program that's unique to your situation, you can have a chance to ask me on the live Q&A teleconference. And there's also downloadable PDFs that are like a workbook. They're like exercises, written exercises that you're asked to complete that help you with the implementation of the program and process some of the points. And then there's these series of important reminders where I take these, because I like to develop ideas pretty thoroughly so people really understand not only what to do, but what's kind of the thinking behind it. Why does this work? Why is this effective? I want people to have really a thorough understanding of the successful practices in a marriage.

But I have then these important reminders, which is just kind of cuts to the chase, like in a couple of words, it helps you remember the entire episode, you know, the entire video, like the take-home point. And those are the main features of the program. You can sign up on my website. If you have any questions about it, you can call my office or email my office.

In addition to the program, which I definitely recommend people do first, but if for some reason and you feel that it wasn't enough, or you want to speak to me directly, or, you know, I do full day intensives, right? You know, fly to your house and work with you and your spouse. And I also do private one-on-one sessions via phone. Let me be totally frank. My fees are very high. My time is incredibly valuable. I got 9,000 things going on. And it's really not necessary. I mean, if you're one of these high net worth people and money is no obstacle and you just want to speak to me, great, I'm ready to go. Most people are not in that situation and it's okay. That's why I've created this program for an affordable amount. I've basically taken all of these teachings and all of this advice and sort of collated it into these videos, these audios, and these PDFs to help people. Even before you purchase and do the program, if you want, totally free on my website,

no strings attached. There are seven secrets for fixing your marriage. You just put in your name and email address. You'll get these emails from me, which are really content heavy. I mean, I really give away some very, very good advice in those emails. And it'll give you a sense as to who I am, where I'm coming from, how I think, how I develop ideas, what my advice is.

And that's totally free. There's no strings attached. So even before you do the program, you know you can feel free to opt in for that free report and i'm also going to put a link in you have a documentary called back from the brink um and it's kind of a chronicles people in marriage crisis and these are actual clients of yours that that really were at the the brink of divorce and and were able to to strengthen their marriages and stay together it's a very interesting I think documentary was written and produced by Torres Thomas, who's a young filmmaker.

And yeah, I think it's only like five minutes. I'll put the link in the show notes for that as well. So thanks so much for being with me again today. We'll have to, I'll have to have you back.

You're going to end up being a regular on the show. I'm ready. I enjoy it. You ask great questions.

I appreciate it. I hope it's helpful to your audience. All right, parents. If your marriage is struggling, be proactive.

Go check out all that Mort has to offer. You can go to MarriageMax.com, find him on Facebook under Mort Fertile Marriage Fitness. I'm going to put all the links to his YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Pinterest.

He's everywhere. Put all of those in the show notes as well as the documentary back from the brink. All right. Till next time, everyone.

Take care. Thank you.