Common Sense Divorce with Special Guest Dena Silliman Nielson

All right, parents, before we get into today's episode, I want to make sure that for those of you who are divorced, planning to divorce, separated, or maybe you've been divorced for years and you're really kind of struggling and want to know what you can do and say to help your kiddos as you guys all navigate through divorce. I want to make sure that you're taking advantage of the free resources that have been provided all month long, all the month of January.

We have just two days today and tomorrow to access those resources yet because the website comes down January 31st or February 1st, actually. But January is International Child Center Divorce Month, and I want to make sure that you take advantage of all that Rosalind Sadaka has made available to you. Rosalyn was on episode, I think it was 91, 92, last October of the No Problem Parenting Podcast. And she shares some exceptionally great tips and resources for you on how to talk to your kids and create a new story, continued story for your family, even through divorce.

And she has a beautiful, wonderful storybook. You can watch. We did a Facebook Live today on January 30th to talk about her storybook guide for parents. but she also created she is the founder of or the reason that international child center divorce month even exists and she creates this website divorced parents support.com i'm going to have a link in the show notes all you need to do is go enter your name and your email and then you are going to get more than 30 resources all absolutely free anything from family law to financial resources to therapy for mom for dad for the kids for the whole family there's just a lot of resources and No Problem Parenting is a proud sponsor of this event. So make sure you head over to DivorcedParentsSupport.com and get your information by January 31st because once the month is over the website comes down and it is not recreated until next year. This was Rosalind's 16th year of providing these free resources for families that are navigating divorce.

Welcome to the No Problem Parenting Podcast. Turn behavior problems into no problem with Jackie Fineman. Are you ready to become the confident leader your kids crave you to be? Do you want to learn how to make parenting easier and more fulfilling? Whether you are at your wits end or you want to have more fun as a parent, you're definitely in the right place. Now here's your host, Jackie Fineman. All right, let's thank our sponsor of today's podcast, H&S Heating and Air Electrical and Plumbing. When it comes to repairing and maintaining your heating, you can count on H&S. Heating equipment isn't a one-size-fits-all. An improperly sized furnace or boiler can result in poor performance and high energy bills during the heating season. H&S offers in-home assessments to determine why your current heating equipment may not be functioning the way that it should.

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All right, welcome back No Problem Parents. I have another guest on today in support of International Child Center Divorce Month, the whole month of January. And so I brought on another guest that's going to help us navigate. She's a special niche in helping us navigate the divorce process.

So let me introduce you to Dina Silliman Nielsen. Dina is a retired family law attorney who spent 25 years in the courtroom representing clients in divorce. She is now focusing on helping women with children survive the divorce process and thrive in their new normal after the divorce in order to reclaim their happiness and self-worth. And she supports these women as they co-parent with their ex-spouse.

Dina believes that, much like in her own case, divorce is not the end, but rather the beginning of a beautiful new story. Her efforts surround her abilities as an author, educator, coach, and speaker. Dina lives in Whitney, Texas with her husband, Bill, and their little dog, Buddy. I'm very excited to have you on the show.

You have a wealth of information, Dina. Welcome. Well, thank you, Jackie. I'm so happy to be here.

As I told you a little earlier, I see you everywhere. and I said where where are you seeing me I don't even know where I'm all at it's been a whirlwind of uh the start of 2023 already we have so much going on and uh I'm just happy that Adina Adler one of the authors in my first book No Problem Parenting Raising Your Kiddos with More Confidence and Less Fear Adina has written a chapter in there and she connected us quite a while back actually um so just happy to have you in my circle give us a little bit more of your background why you're doing, what you're doing now and how you're helping parents. Sure. You know, I went to law school a little later than some, I was 41 years old when I graduated from law school.

My original plan was to be an Indian attorney, Native Americans. And I started working at a Native American firm in Norman, Oklahoma. I worked there for eight years and unfortunately, my law partner passed away. And so I didn't know what to do at first. I was just like, oh my God.

But eventually I moved to Denver and I worked for a couple of firms there, mainly and still in Indian law. But eventually I knew that I had to open my own firm. And so that's what I did in 2004 and about the same time as I married my husband now. So that was a busy year. It's been a long for the ride from the beginning of that. But I came from a place where lawyers had to do whatever they had to do to make a living, right? Because, you know, whatever came in the door, that's what we did. Well, when I moved to Colorado, I was able to just do exclusively family law. And it was just a blessing for me because that was really one of my favorite topics in law school. It's always been an interest of mine. And so I finished out my career as a practicing attorney doing family law. And then when my husband decided to retire,

and we're the same age, by the way, and I wasn't quite ready, but I wasn't going to be the only wasn't working either. So I said, no fair. We're all retiring. So then we, we moved to Texas and, uh, I was just bored stiff. So I wrote this book, common sense divorce over the pandemic.

And then that has just morphed into all these other things. You know, I have, uh, courses and, um, I'm planning, uh, and working on another book on co-parenting by the way. And, uh, So eventually I'll get that done. Right.

I know how that goes. Right. And in the meantime, I'm doing a lot of as much speaking as I can as well. And I appreciate you having me on the podcast.

Well, I love having you on here. And especially since we're going to talk about two really kind of sticky, tricky subjects. Let's start with the co-parenting. Why do you think parents have such difficulty co-parenting?

I think the crux of that is two things. it's lack of respect with each other because that's what causes the divorce many times and that carries over into their co-parenting they don't have much respect for each other and two because of that they can't then communicate properly and they and a lot of times neither of them know how to get past that and they don't get any help or they don't look for any resources or, you know, and so then they're just at each other all the time.

And I've seen many cases like that, especially in the post decree processes, you know, the motion to modify or whatever it is they came in for. That was a lot of the problem is they just didn't know how to communicate. They could not get past the hurt, the anger, the guilt, whatever it was that was left over from the divorce. and because of that then that just takes hold of the kids you know that makes the problem for the children and that's what you don't want i had a case where i had to have the couple meet at the police department in order to do an exchange for the parenting time so they were there two or three times a week because they could not figure out how not to have a brawl every time they got close to each other and that's just not okay. Right. And that's one reason, not just that case,

but I mean, those kinds of situations is one reason I'm still in this area today is I just feel that there's too much. They just need more help than what they're getting. So what are some tips that you have that you could offer the parents listening that that's going to help their co-parenting when they're already divorced? It's done. It's finalized. So, right. And that's the thing. Everybody needs to realize that they are divorced and it's done and everybody's going to be moving on. Some people accept that pretty easily and other people have trouble with that.

It's what I've seen. But I think the main thing that you want to do, and I've seen this so often, people think they're in agreement and so they don't go to an attorney. They don't have an attorney draft their parenting plan. And that's a big mistake in my opinion. I've had too many cases where I had to go back and correct the parenting plan. I guess that's why I'm saying that. But you need to have a specific parenting plan that sets out everything relative to how you're going to go forward in co-parenting and not just co-parenting, but other things as well.

So if you have an attorney do it, I feel like, you know, there's less of a chance of it being challenged later, I guess is the point. So that's the first thing. And you need to know as you're doing that, and I know a lawyer will tell you this, but some lawyers dwell on it more than others, I guess I would say. You need to understand that holidays and vacation time has precedence over regular parenting time. That causes so many conflicts. I've had so many cases where I had to say, look, you know, you don't get everything you want.

And here's the deal. If somebody's going on vacation and they followed the guidelines in the parenting plan to give you notice of that, they're going on vacation and they're taking the kids and there's not anything you can do about it. Because they would say, oh, well, that's imposing on my parenting time, blah, blah, blah. And that may be true.

And that's OK. So you need to understand that. um you need to be flexible to a certain extent with the parenting uh plan because you know life happens and people have uh weddings to go to and they want to take the kids now are you going to deny your child the ability to go to that wedding with their other uh parent just because it's your parenting time just just swap just you know do it different um you need to understand that sort of thing because funerals happen people die in the family and that the child needs to you know go with them or whatever um those are the kinds of things i used to see a lot that they wanted to argue about that if you have unlimited access to funds then go ahead and do that uh your lawyer will be very wealthier because of it but that's not really how you want to spend your money I don't think so that, and one big thing I've noticed too, that would help is to know that things are different. Now, a lot of people think that things are just going to stay the same after the divorce. And once you start co-parenting and that's not the case,

that's not what's going to happen. You need to recognize that things are different and you need to, that way you'll make room in your life for new memories and new experiences with your children instead of trying to keep it exactly the same way it was before. The kids know that it's not the same. Okay. They know it's not the same. I don't care how old they are, how young they are. And so the more you can accept that and move forward in that light, I think you'll be a lot better off. And certainly your children will be. Flexibility is very important. And I know that it can sound, that can all sound super easy to create that parenting plan and to make those things happen. And then, you know, even if you are flexible, but what happens when your co-parenting just seems impossible, you're doing everything, everybody's suggesting you've got your parenting plan, all of that, but it just isn't, it doesn't seem like it's working or the other parent isn't upholding their end of the deal. What kinds of things do you suggest? Well, first of all, you've got to drill down and find out what's the reason, what what's going on? Why is it not going as planned. Seek first to understand that step one of no problem parenting. I love it. Keep talking.

That's exactly right. And you have to have an open mind because it might be you. Maybe you are the reason that it's not going the way it should. I can't tell you. I've had that conversation a few times with my clients that, you know, I understand that he or she is not doing what you want them to do. I understand that. I see that, but let's think about what are you being reasonable and what your expectations are, you know, and if you can do that, not, not a lot of people can do that. I gotta be honest. But, um, if you can recognize that maybe you need to make some changes for yourself and in your life, and then maybe that would kind of rub off on them and they would make some changes. I mean, you know, it's, um, it's just one of those things that you, you just have to figure out what the reason is. If the reason is this person's a terrible person and I don't want my kids around them, you know, that's a different conversation. Then you're just not doing what you need to do. So you have to figure out what the real reason is. And then if it comes to the point that you just cannot get along. You just can't. And nobody's a terrible person.

Nobody's a narcissist. You just can't get along there. There's something called parallel parenting. And I'm sure you're familiar with that. It's, you know, where people just go and do their own thing and they don't really talk to each other that much. And the children just go back and forth.

And, you know, that's a terrible situation. I feel like for you, for the parents, I don't think that's a great, great situation. So I would do everything possible to figure it out before you do that. But, you know, there are those extreme cases where that works out better for people.

So, right. If it's going to avoid the constant battle between the two of you and the kids being put in the middle, then parallel parenting is an option. but co-parenting is always the the best plan that's the goal yeah that's the goal you do have experience when one of the people in the relationship or ex-relationship now is a narcissist and so that is something that you have experience with and i and i just want to i want to learn a little bit more about that how do you know if you're dealing with a narcissist well i do have a professional experience in that area but i also have personal experience in that area as well um i think you know um and i'll tell you the truth a lot of the times people know that there's an issue there's something wrong here and they might not know the label that goes with it um i was a lawyer okay and i was living with this person that i just couldn't be around i just you know my kids were walking on eggshells 24 7 the first thing you want to do is set your boundaries and know how far you're willing to go with it,

you know, with that person. How far down that path are you going to walk with them? And as long as you know that, I think you can control your own emotions and your own self. And it wouldn't be as detrimental to you as it might be if you don't set those boundaries going in.

I love what you say about that it can be a new beginning. It absolutely can be. And that's what happened for us. I mean, the whole thing is just turned into a much better situation than it would have been had we stayed there.

I mean, that's just all there is to it. And so when I see people say, oh, I could never do that. And they're living in such pain and sorrow and, you know, they're not happy at all. They just have nothing good to look forward to.

That's always a situation where, you know, I just go, well, everybody's going to do what they need to do, but you need to think about how short a time you're here on this earth. And is this how you want to live? You know, and I'm not trying, I mean, I would never try to encourage somebody to get a divorce, but sometimes that's necessary for you to live a better life. Well, and, and I don't know about at the timing of when you were divorcing and all the resources or things you had access to, but I do know in this last two days of the month of January, there are a wealth of resources on the International Child Center Divorce Networks event that's happening through the month of January here. We just have a couple of days left for people to go access those resources. I'll have a link in the show notes. You're one of the sponsors of this event or one of the contributors. Yeah, you're one of the contributors of this event as am I and No Problem Parenting is sponsoring the event. And there are, you know, if you're feeling like it's a financial reason why you're not separating or divorcing, if you feel like you are, you're already divorced, but you're just, and you need to go back and redo this co-parenting plan, but you can't afford to hire the attorney again, or like there's lots of resources, financial resources on this site, as well as specialized services and programs for the mom or for the dad or for specifically the kids. So parents, I'm going to encourage you to

check out the link in the show notes and look through, there's so many free resources available. One of the things I wanted to talk about though too, Dina, is your Common Sense Divorce book. So tell us about the book. What is the reader going to learn from the book and how is it going to help them? Well, Common Sense Divorce is basically just a blueprint set out to let people know what they should do, what they should not do as they proceed through divorce. It goes, it starts with, with, with the person considering whether they were going to stay or go. Okay.

Talks about all the things they can consider about that. And then how to hire an attorney, how to go to mediation, how to prepare for trial. If the mediation is unsuccessful, It's a very practical guide about the things that are going to happen if you decide to go forward with the divorce. And I wrote this mainly because I could see through my practice that people came in without knowing at all what was about to happen.

They didn't know how to get their finances together. They didn't know what mediation meant, you know, just really basic stuff. so I thought well I'll put together a little book turned into a 200 page book but anyway and it goes all the way through um raising step kids and blended families so it's just sort of start to finish and it talks about how you know when you start dating again and the things that you should do and not do especially if you have children so there's all of that kind of thing in there as well. So common sense divorce, it's 10 steps to save you time, money, and worry. And I'm all about that. No problem parenting. We say we got to get off the fear bus. We don't know what we don't know, but when we know it, we can be more confident. And so when we're more confident,

then our kids do better. Absolutely. And you have a free gift for the listeners today. Tell us about that. It's called top 10 tips for successful co-parenting. And it's, that's exactly what it is.

It is just 10 things that I believe that if you do those 10 things, you'll have much more success in your co-parenting efforts. Well, that's excellent. Thank you for that gift. And you are, like I said, part of the International Child-Centered Divorce Network, the month of giveaways that Rosalind Sadaka has put together.

So I will have the link in there for people to go check you out as well. Part of the International Child-Centered Divorce Month, you are offering, if people go find you on that page, you're offering not just the 22 do's and don'ts for co-parenting, but also a free session. Correct. So parents can reach out to you, give you a call and see if you're a good fit for them, or if there's any other services that you have to offer would be a good fit for them. So that's amazing too. Any final words, Dina, parting words for us? Well, I think like you said earlier that divorce is not the end.

So many people see it as failure. They see it as, oh, nobody's ever going to love me again, blah, blah, blah. None of that is true. That's just bad things you're telling yourself.

So divorce is not the end. It is only the beginning of a beautiful new story. And I don't want you to be afraid or down on yourself for this. You know, people get married, they figure out they're not the right fit, and they get divorced.

That's all it is. And it's like any other partnership that if you look at it, look at the divorce as a division of assets and liabilities, just like any other partnership, I think you'll get through it a whole lot easier than if you tie up all those emotions in there with it. Yeah. Excellent.

Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Dina, for being on the show today. Thank you. I appreciate it.

And I enjoyed my time here. Thank you for tuning in to the No Problem Parenting Podcast. Join Jackie next time for more tips, tools, and resources that will help you become the confident leader your kids crave you to be. Who do you know that we could support on their parenting journey?

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