Mutual Respect Grows Confident Kids; The Homeschool Garden Way, with Special Guest Erica Orosco Cruz

Hey, welcome back No Problem Parents. Today's episode is for all you parents raising kiddos under the age of six. We're going to talk about how giving children consistent routines to lean on, facilitating them to learn through imitation and exploration, and providing them with both artistic and physical activities helps them learn, grow, and develop authentically. Meet Erica Orozco-Cruz. Erica's passion for supporting families stems from her own experience as a mother of four boys, ranging in ages from 2 to 25.

And she's a daughter who set out to parent in a different way than she was raised as a child. While raising her kids, she's learned to find a program that brought children to the forefront while also providing clear boundaries for mutual respect, a program where children could be seen and heard and where adults would see with new eyes and listen for what was unsaid. When she realized what she was looking for didn't exist, she founded Homeschool Garden, a now two-decade-old early childhood development center in Los Angeles, California.

At Homeschool Garden, Erica has developed a school model that provides an environment where children, families, and teachers can thrive and grow together on the foundation of mutual respect. Erica also serves parents as a coach and postpartum doula, supporting parents on everything from what happens when you get home from the hospital and more. Homeschool Gardens' approach uses a combination of both Rye and Waldorf early childhood education to meet children where they are and provide them with a foundation of respect for themselves, their peers, and their environment. This is going to be a fun episode, parents. Listen in.

Welcome to the No Problem Parenting Podcast. Turn behavior problems into no problem with Jackie Fineman. Are you ready to become the confident leader your kids crave you to be? Do you want to learn how to make parenting easier and more fulfilling? Whether you are at your wits end or you want to have more fun as a parent, you're definitely in the right place. Now here's your host, Jackie Fineman. Welcome to the show, Eric. I'm excited to have you here.

Thank you so much. I'm really happy to be here as well. How did you decide that you wanted to get into homeschooling? You know, I had worked in many school districts as I was getting my credentials and my experience and saw a lot of what is typical mainstream, the reward cards, the, you know, praising, the punishments, the timeouts, the stand outside the door.

And I was not signing my kids up for that. I was wanting something different. There wasn't really much models out there that I had seen. And this is, you know, my son's 25. So, you know, 22 years ago, I thought I had chosen a great preschool for him. There was some bullying that was happening from older kids. And he was, you know, four. So it was okay, you know, this isn't our thing. I'm telling the children, you know, who are kicking your child to run outside and kick Billy go, you know, that Billy, pretend they're Billy goats and run outside and kick is not a clear boundary. Yeah. And so when I couldn't find it outside, I said, Okay, well, we are going to start something here that really is about respecting each other, respecting boundaries and, you know, living in the world that they do,

where they get to play and learn about each other in a, in a safe environment. Oh, I love that. I think for a lot of parents, they wish they could stay home with their kids, but they can't, they need to work. They need the income. And then you have other parents that are at home. The last thing they would want to do is homeschool. Homeschool garden actually offers online and in person. So for all the listeners out there today, yes, Erica's in Los Angeles, and you're tuning in from somewhere outside of Los Angeles, there's still an option for you to do some online homeschooling should you be interested after this interview.

But tell us kind of the families that come to you and what are they looking for and what do you guys offer? You know, I think we have both. We have the parents that are working outside of the home and are looking for a place where their child can be a kid, you know, as long as possible. And then we have the parents that, you know, have flexibility, especially with the pandemic of working from home or staying at home, at least part time, and are really, they weren't set up, you know, to really be with their children for long periods of time.

and so they you know may come part-time to the school or they may get online support and it just varies you know what I find is the parents that are really looking for something out of the box something that's not mainstream something that's a little different and when they come if they're able to come for a visit and just observe they are like this is it you know they resonate with it right away. You know, the children are, you know, working with, you know, amongst each other, you know, working out problems, you know, if there's a conflict, then there might be some intervention between the adults facilitators that are in the area.

And it's just really a lot of flow and a lot of joy. And you don't hear a lot of teachers speaking. It's really the children that are really playing. So homeschool garden is based staff of two methods, am I right? Is it the RIE method and also Waldorf? Yes. Okay, so why don't you explain just kind of quickly each of those? Sure. So Resources for Infant Educators, the acronym is RIE, was based also here in Los Angeles and was really developed with the model of working with infants and toddlers because there was so much information from Head Start and Montessori from three years on. So it was really focused on the younger children at first of really mutual respect from the very beginning. So I would not go and grab a tissue and, you know, attempt to wipe your nose, Jackie, but we do that to children all the time. So it would be for a model would be,

you know, I see your nose is juicy is what we'll say to the child. And if it's a younger, younger child, I might say, I'm going to go get a tissue and I'll bring it back to wipe your nose. and I'll pause, and then I'll go and do that. And if it's a three to even two and above, we can say, I see your nose is juicy. You may go get a tissue to wipe your nose.

And they, you know, toddle over to go get a tissue to wipe their nose. And so mutual respect from a very young age, you know, understanding of these are capable beings, if we're talking to them, you know, from a very young age, I do postpartum. So like from the day they get home from the hospital, I might be at their house and I might be offering a diaper change of, you know, I'm, I'm spelling your diaper. I'm thinking that it's time for a change.

I'm going to go get a diaper ready. Okay. Now I'm going to pick you up. I'm going to carry you to the diaper changing table. So I'm walking them through this because it's their body. They're going to need, you know, to have more information about it. So, you know, once they hear, you know, diaper a hundred times over, it's like, oh, okay. Diaper. I get it. That is so interesting. My parents, I, my mom used to do this. Like she didn't know what the Rye method was at all. Right.

But she would talk to the baby. She was, she did daycare in, in her home, in the home. There were five of us kids. And so, you know, the day I learned a lot from just watching her, but I don't, I mean, she didn't know there was a Rye method for sure. Uh, when she was parenting, but I remember her, she would pick the baby up and she would literally say what she's doing as she's not all the time necessarily, but she would, she would pick them up and say, Oh, somebody's stinky.

You know, somebody went to the bathroom and she'd, as she's changing the diaper, she's saying, lift your butt. And I'm thinking it's a baby mom. The baby can't lift. They don't know what you're saying, but it's that modeling. And that's just describing the, the, like what you're doing as you're doing it, that is actually brilliant because it teaches the child about their body, about what's going on, about what's happening and how to not take care of themselves. Like in, you know, as an infant, you're not really taking care of yourself, but learning about how to do that and knowing what's happening when it's happening. I mean, yes, even us as, you know, grown women going to the OBGYN, how many times we want to just like, how's the weather? How's your family or check out of our body rather than, you know, Hey, what's looking. And I have some questions. And, um, and so there's principles, guiding principles that really support that.

Um, and for me, as, um, I was first came across the philosophy as a, in, in school, as a college student, and they were using the rhyme manual as part of our infant and toddler training. And I was like, great, this is so great. So different. And you can't really do this with kids. You know, I was a young 18 year old in college and had tons of experience with, you know, babysitting and, and my sister was having children by the time I was 14. And so I was like, this is great, but you, you know, they don't get it. Like you can't, but it wasn't until I saw it in practice that I was like, wow, like they get it. Like babies get it. And it's interesting because I think more than ever, we're doing everything for our kids because we're so busy. We just want to get it done. We don't want to spend time on it. It takes too long to teach a child or talk to a child about what you're doing or how to, you know, why you're doing what you're doing or what they can go do for themselves. It's like, it's just easier for us to get the shoes on and tie them up. Just easier for us to get it done, to wipe their butt after they go to the bathroom. Everything's more fast pace.

Which is not children's pace. And so, you know, they're able to process, you know, we give them the time and the space for them to process that, you know, I don't expect them, you know, have a juicy nose and you may go get a tissue that they're going to like immediately run, but they're thinking about it. I'm like, oh, okay. I know what she's talking about. Let me go get a tissue.

Right. And then as they wipe it and it smears all over their cheek and they don't get it all, then what then it's like oh I see you missed a spot I may have to help you and then it's like okay and now I might get a tissue and wipe again takes a little extra time and they're not going to do it right yeah the first time or the second time or right away yeah and that's okay so you're not just saying oh just go get a tissue and whatever happens happens you're still yeah you're not checking out you're still going teaching you're comforting you're helping you're doing a little, a little more with them. But the ultimate goal is that they'll recognize they have a juicy nose and go do it on their own. Yes. Cause sometimes they're just playing. They don't even have the awareness that they're feeling it, having them check into their body of like,

this is what I see. And then it's like, Oh, I feel it now. And then we have multi-ages here. So we have, you know, our youngest right now just turned one. And then we have all the way up to five and a half. And, you know, the older children start to say, Oh, you have a juicy nose because we've modeled that behavior. And then the other child, you know, senses it. And then it's like, okay, I'm going to go get a tissue without any adult intervention because it's been modeled.

The youngest just turned one. I mean, you literally are starting from the day the baby's born. Yes. So, you know, you talked about it with your mom, with the diaper changes. So, you know, there's so much that they're dependent on us for, you know, the feedings, the diaper changes, do the putting to sleep, you know, getting them ready for sleep. So all of that is, you know, we're not a monologue where we're just talking, talking, talking, but it's, they're participating in it by us pausing. So, oh, it's been a while since you ate. I'm going to get your bottle ready now. I hear you. You're ready. Okay. It's ready now. I'm going to pick you up and we model it with our hands. So we're showing them and then we pick them up and then show them the bottle.

Okay. I'm ready now. And then offer the bottle. So again, the pausing, you know, we can talk all like a monologue and just, okay, I'm holding you. I'm holding, you know, the bottle. Okay. Here it is. All right. You know, and take up all that space, but it doesn't really give them response time. It doesn't give them the opportunity to respond. You know, they see the bottle, their eyes light up, you know, are these your hands offering to be picked up? And they're like, yes, that's what I want. They're little wiggles. Yeah. And so, you know, and we are consistent with the language and with the modeling of our, if it's our hands or showing them the tissue before we wipe, we're consistent with that. So they know what's going to happen. So we're modeling the trust of like, okay, I'm not going to just zoom in and grab your nose. I'm going to show you the tissue first and first you know they might turn away they turn their heads right they don't want their nose wiped if they've already had an experience of somebody you know grabbing it you know so but if I'm modeling they might turn away and I'm not going away I still have the tissue there but I'm also not rushing in to get it like oh the tissue's there she didn't rush in like she's not gonna like smother me with this tissue and then they might lift their nose towards you so that they're participating. I can bet that if you start off that way, it's a conversation,

it's a dance together. It's an honoring of their space and they receive that. They're like, Oh, this is, this might be different than how I've had before. And teaching that independence in a healthy way. So it's not independent. You know, sometimes parents will say, Oh, my toddler is so independent and they just have their own mind and they just do their own thing, but there's sometimes that, I mean, and that's great unless they're the independence means refusal or, um, like the opposite of what you're asking for, or you need them to do in the moment. Right. Yes. How do you describe that or how? Yeah. Um, and so for us, for, for me, what I gained from using the right philosophy, that the consistency actually replaces the discipline. Like there doesn't have to be discipline, because you have the consistency in place and discipline in the sense of, you know, you know, there's a punishment or a consequence in in a negative way. But just the consistency of okay, when it's time for us, you know, to go body here, we'll sing their name. And they're like, then they start trotting towards the door, because they know that that's the time to go to the bathroom. Or, you know, we start to sing a song for circle time. And it's the same song that we always start with. And, you know, their ears prick up from wherever they are in the yard. And they're like, okay, it's time. And they, you know, trot

over. Same thing with, you know, when we're serving lunch, we'll, we'll gather, have a gathering song, and then we'll say grace. And so, you know, some who are like, food motivated are like, they're at the table. And the other ones who are like, I'm gonna wait a little bit, you know, they're still playing, but they're taking a peek over what's going on. You know, we don't have to like, you know, hey, it's time and I'm going to come and get you that kind of thing, really of like, they're watching, they're observing, we're starting, and then they join.

There's so much participation in it with the consistency. We have the age range of potty learning. And so, so there's lots of like, newness to it for children who are maybe not at home. And And so it's really of like, here's the potty, we're going to sit down.

And if it's two seconds, thank you. And if it's five minutes, okay, we're going to move on now. Some are just camped out there with their little book. Well, really giving them the space to have the independence.

So we create a safe environment. So when they're in the yard and they're playing, we have digging areas, you know, with shovels, with real shovels. And we have a huge, you know, we have a tall climbing structure and, you know, there's grass and there's ducks and there's chickens and there's things like that. It's a safe environment where we don't need to be hovering.

There doesn't have to be no, no, no in any direction. You know, everything is out of reach. That's not safe for them. You know, where we clean the tables with and, you know, our yard tools are tucked away and things like that.

But anything that's in the space is really safe for them to use. and so there isn't um it's not like structured play then yes it's not it's not and it's not a hovering you know if there's a new child we're going to be close by the climbing structure to see their abilities we're going to be observing we're going to be you know maybe you know i see there's two people coming down the ladder or you know giving information but once we've seen their abilities we don't go and you know hover in any way so in that way they're very independent if you have infants, you're thinking, okay, I'm just supposed to go talk my infant through the motions of what I'm doing when I'm doing it. What about when they're crying and they just aren't, they just don't stop. You can't seem to settle the baby. Yes. So definitely, you know, people have an idea about Rye sometimes that, oh, that's where you just let them figure it out on their own.

And actually that is not the case. You know, we in the Rye practitioners are call ourselves facilitators. So we're facilitating. So if we have a child who's overtired, which happens a lot on Mondays for us, maybe they had a busy weekend or, you know, there was lots of visitors or something, you know, a little different. So they're maybe more tired, just out of sorts, more emotional, maybe at separation, or sometimes we serve lunch a little earlier on Mondays because everybody just needs it a little bit quicker and needs to settle into nap time as soon as possible.

we do have kids that you know may be more emotional and it isn't like all right you know while your mom and your daddy left and you know they're going to work and that's it you know we wouldn't do that if you know I hear you I hear you crying I remember mama said that she's going to pick you up after lunch or I remember mama said she's going to pick you up after snack you know if they're staying a longer day and then you know more emotions might be mama you know mama I hear you. And we're going to go and get our hat, which we do every time when we enter into the yard.

And they, you know, start to move closer to me. We walk over to their little basket. You know, they, you know, may pause and wait for me to get the hat. They may get the hat themselves.

They're welcome to stay close to us. You know, they might then get, you know, see caught a vision of somebody playing with trains. And so they want to go over to the train area. But they're always welcome to have emotional support.

And I think Waldorf really, you know, also brings that in a sense of, you know, we are part of the environment. We get to, you know, be available. And, you know, if their emotional needs is, you know, they want to sit in your lap, then they sit in your lap, you know, and you support them in that way. during sleep, you had talked about, you know, cried out method. And, you know, especially if you have a group of children, daycare, people come in, we do the tour, and they're like, they all sleep, like at the same time, you know, we have, you know, the preschool ages. And I said, Yes, they do. And, you know, our young infants have their own nap routine in that way. But it's the consistency, you know, their bed is in the same spot, you know, their, their lovey or their blanket is on their bed already waiting for them. They go potty. And it's like, they, we don't even have to say they trot, you know, walk over, toddle over to their beds, and land on their beds. And they,

you know, our routine is, you know, everybody's on their bed, we sing some songs, we tell a story. and, you know, they slowly drift off to sleep. If we had somebody that was more emotional, you know, there might be an adult sitting by their bed to comfort them and not to shush them, but to actually just be present for it. I heard you say that with the little kiddo that maybe, you know, on Monday morning is having a hard time separating when mom or dad dropped them off.

And so they do, they are crying. And I heard what I didn't hear you do is you didn't try to convince them they'd be okay. And you didn't try to make anything better for them in that moment or distract them. You just literally heard them not making any definites about their emotion or their behavior and not trying to change that or make it better. But saying, I heard mom, I heard mom say she was picking you up after snack. Do you say things like, I see you're sad?

I don't. Some people, some practitioners might label the emotions for me. You know, they might be pissed that mom left. They might be angry that, you know, they're having to be here and they know that brother has the day off and mom and brother are going to go do something.

So I don't want to label something that I don't know. Like if it's sad or anger or things like that, I can talk about what I see. I see your crime. I see you might need a tissue. Um, you can stay close. You know, I'm going to go, um, empty the dishwasher. You're welcome to come with it's so matter of fact, I really love this because here at no problem parenting, that's we do a lot of that too. Matter of fact, when a kid is throwing a fit or a tantrum, rather than getting all anxious or upset about it, just noticing what they're doing and allowing them to have the fit or have the tantrum or have the meltdown or whatever you want to call it. And just pausing, you know, like not trying to make it better for them. What does a tantrum or a fit look like for you? I'm sure you guys don't have them because you're starting these kids off in your program, but for parents out there, what is it? What,

how do you respond to a total wet noodle, you know, a fit to the point of like rage, you know, that you are just not calming that kiddo down for no money. Yeah, definitely. Well, I can think about my two and a half year old and um he was eating lunch yesterday and some other friends had finished lunch already and had moved on to the train area where you could see from the table and he saw you know two and a half old style of like I was playing with that earlier today and that's the train that I want now the children even one-year-olds if they're able to steady on their feet pick up their dishes and put them in a bin a dishpan bin when they're done so he did that like he knew that's what I need to do to get done with the table walked over to the train and was like I want that and was you know first was like you know here I'll just grab it from you um and and then an adult intervened of like I saw that Winnie had it you're wanting it and you know then it was the emotions of like ah you know I want that and um and it was a reminder Winnie's playing with that you may have to wait till she's done or you can find something else no I want that you know high emotions um and it was you know I may have to hold your body away from Winnie so Winnie can play with that without you know somebody storming raging around her demanding the toy and so it's like I'm gonna put my hands here so then he threw his his bum on the floor and was like wow you know

life is so hard. I don't have the train that I want, you know? So, you know, just making sure everybody's safe, you know, he gets to have his emotions. We talk about what's, you know, safe when he gets to play when, when he's done, there may be an opportunity, but you know, for a young two-year-old, it's, I want that. I want that now. I want that, you know, I, because I had it earlier. I want that because I want it now for me, I don't need to rationalize what he is feeling. I don't need to, you know, explain it to him other than she has it now.

Again, we are very matter of fact, like you were talking about and not trying to meet him of like, with the anxiety of like, here, let me find another train for you or here, you know, Winnie, can he have that now? You've had that, you know, that would be overstepping for us. We really want to have boundaries for both of the children, not just one or the other. I love the way that you put this.

It's very similar to what I teach. He gets to be upset that he doesn't, he didn't get the train. He gets to drop his bum down on the floor and, you know, fold his arms or, you know, yell or scream or be mad or whatever. And you're just staying calm and like, yeah, it's kind of like, I know I say that a lot to kids too.

Oh, I know. Maybe I shouldn't say that. That might not be right method. But just I'm empathizing with them that they didn't get what they want and I'm not giving in or trying to make it better or rescue them from that. They'll figure it out. Right. And we're not punishing him for having that behavior as well. You've had it earlier. She gets to have it now.

Why are you throwing yourself on the floor? Come on. You know, you don't need to cry about it. Go find something else. And they'll make it wrong either. And if you don't stop crying, or if you don't, this, you're going to miss out on and all those idle threats of things. That's like out, out the window. What about with the babies that are crying? How, how do you handle that? So like, you know, mentioning the cry it out method, it's not, I have, I have this thought about cry it out because I specialize in attachment, reactive attachment disorder. And I've worked with lots of kids who are abused and neglected in those first three years of life, abandoned adoption issues, you know, so I've never been a fan of cry it out the way I learned it or what I had read about it. Because I didn't like the idea that it would, it would appear to a parent that you're just supposed to put the baby at nighttime or whatever, nap time in the crib,

shut the door and just wait till they stop crying. And that was what I was like, no way, because after 20 minutes from what I've read, the baby's cortisol levels will get so high that they will actually, in a lot of cases, just fall asleep, drift off to sleep, because it's the cortisol is that depressant, right? And it'll just kind of shut their brain down and make them fall asleep. And I thought, Ooh, that just doesn't feel good as far as connection and trust in that parent child bond. But that's not really what cry it out is about. You're still offering comfort and care and nurturing, but just not automatically teaching the child that any second they cry, you're picking them up and holding them, which could teach them that they can't handle tough things without you. Is that how you totally 100% what you said? The key, I think, for for parents, and I don't think I don't think we hear this enough, is that for a young, young child,

the signs of sleep are so slight, so, so slight. So it could be a young infant, you know, smiling joyfully looking at, you know, out the window, you know, looking back at maybe big sister playing. and then all of a sudden it's I can't I can't look at anything like it's all too stimulating like I need to stop looking and it's and it's them just saying I'm tired and we don't get to see that we wait until you know they're a little fussy or you know they're rubbing their eyes which are already like kind of overtired signs so really having you know the opportunity to observe babies and, and so that they don't get too overtired, which a lot of the cried out method is they're overtired. They don't have the skills to now put themselves to sleep because they're exhausted, you know, from their day or whatever it is that happened. And so really catching those cues as early as possible. If you have now an overtired child, you are going to help more with putting to sleep. It may be you stay in the room longer. It may be you hold the baby a little bit longer. It may be, you know, you can lay the baby in the bed, but you might be, you know,

staying close and making sure they're, you know, not losing it. And I think there's the crying of like, oh, this is uncomfortable. I'm not really ready for this. And then there's the get me out of this crib, you know, hype of, of cry. And I think we are able to meet those needs when they are, you know, in that repetitive cry of like, Oh, I don't really want this of like, okay, I'm going to give you some space and see if you can get yourself to sleep with it. And then when it's the get me out of the crib, I'm here. If I need to pick you up, I'll pick you up.

Yeah. You can tell as a parent, oftentimes too, if it's a, it's just sort of a fussy overtired cry, that's something you don't want to rescue them from necessarily. You just maybe a hand on their back and you're knelt down by the crib. You got your hand on their back for a few, few seconds and then hand up, let them fuss a minute, two minutes, three minutes. If it's just a fussy kind of cry, that's not, they're not going to be like going into depressed mode.

Shut down where they're like, nothing's going to help unless you're here. Yeah. Right. But if it is that raging cry, there's something going on. They're not feeling good. They're, they've got a tummy ache. They're afraid they're whatever. I mean, like there's, there's some big need, um, cry it out. It doesn't say just lock them in the, in the room and let them, let them work through that.

Yes. Another thing that I find with that also is if we are holding the children all day long, whether in the sling or in the arms, and now we magically want to expect them to lay in their crib and go to sleep. It's like, when have you given them the opportunity during the day to get comfortable with not being on you being by themselves? You know, it could be, you know, you put them in the crib while you go to the bathroom or you put them in the crib while you put, you know, sister's shoes on or you put them in the crib.

So they start to go, okay, this is not a place where you abandoned me. Yeah. Good point. I could get used to this place.

I could get used to this place. It's not, not a bad place. and they get used to not being in arms all the time. So it's like, oh, it's not something new at like when they're tired that you're introducing them to, but it's actually something that, okay, yeah, this is familiar. Yeah. I love that. All right. So for our infants, if you have any questions, if you have a really fussy little kiddo baby, reach out to Erica, if you're having any postpartum issues, as far as even connection with your baby and where your, your sleep is so important and it can be really hard because babies, they need to learn a sleep schedule. And sometimes it's every two hours that they need to feed. Sometimes you're wanting them to sleep. You're hearing your friends say their babies are sleeping six hours already at, you know, four weeks old or something. And you're like, what am I doing wrong? It's like, it's so individualized to the, to the baby. And you have lots of ideas around how to help mamas out with that, right, Erica? Yes, they do. Thank you. So then the other thing I want to talk about is the Waldorf method a little bit, which has more to do with the classroom experience, right? Yes. Well,

for us, actually, it's more about the environment. We are primarily an outdoor program. We go inside for potty breaks. We go inside for sleep. The children that stay till, you know, five o'clock in the evening, they'll have their last hour indoors just to regroup before, you know, getting picked up by mom and dad and have their evening routine with them. So for us, it's really the environment. There's a lot of, you know, outdoor space. The children are doing real work. So we have chickens and ducks and they help us clean out the coop, you know, and they do it so readily, lovingly, like, can I, can I, can I be the one, you know, to help? We're, you know, putting fresh bedding for them, you know, raking out anything that needs to be raked out. We're feeding, we're watering plants, we're gardening. We get to see things from seed all the way, you know, to,

to what we're eating on the table. So they have a lot of real work experience. They're welcome to sweep, you know, and dig with us, ride along with us. And then also the activities that we offer, the artistic activities. It's not a, everybody has to come sit down and color or paint or whatever.

We have different artistic activities, one every day of the week. And the children, you know, love to come to it. And then they get to go and do their own thing. The indoor space, you know, we're here in Los Angeles.

So if the air quality is not great, we might be indoors that day. And so inside the materials are, you know, wood, natural, you know, baskets and things like that. silks, playstands, more of the environment, wooden toys. In our kitchen, we do have, you know, silicone. We do have plastic because we have that in our home. So, you know, it's realistic for children to have those things. And so for us more, the environment and the activities that we do with the children, it's an invitation. It's for the children to come to. One of the things about Waldorf is that the teacher is part of the environment, but if the children aren't coming to circle or they are having, you know, wanting to throw blocks instead of build with blocks,

how can we invite them to do that? So it's really what, what can I, what song can I bring? What engagement can I bring with the children? Am I modeling, you know, building with the blocks, if they're tending to blow, tending to throw them, or am I taking them over to balls that they can throw instead. If a child doesn't want to come to circle time, that's okay.

That's okay. And we have, you know, we have the younger ones who are before two where they come and they like, they sit like they're watching a show. Like they're just so enthralled by it, but not yet able to hold hands during a song or, you know, when we're doing songs where we're using our fingers for finger play, you know, they're not yet have the, you know, finger dexterity to do it with us, but they're enthralled by it. When we're hopping, you know, like little bunnies, you know, they can't yet hop with two feet, but they're like trying to. Yeah. Right. Right. So there's a lot of modeling from the other kids going on. So, so your kids are sort of all in the same area. It's not like infants have an infant room, preschoolers and toddlers have their own separate rooms. Everybody's just all in together. Yes. When you do it in the home base,

the kids can be mixed age in California. When you are in a commercial building, then they need to be separated. Isn't that such a bummer? It's such a bummer because they learn from each other, especially children that are one and only, or like my children who have big age gaps in between, they get to be the younger in this program. And then as they age through it, then they get to experience what it, what it is to be an older sibling, you know, in the sense, because it's so community driven here.

Well, and I just think it teaches so when they can all be together, it teaches those three-year-olds who would maybe not be aware of how their body and movement moving around affects other people. But if there's a little one-year-old or a 10-month-old playing nearby that they learn, oh, I've got to be careful and sort of in control of my body because I might hurt this other kid. Like there's a lot of natural stuff that happens with, so we won't be able to, you know, solve the world's problems with that. But it is, it is such a bummer when we can't, you know, kids learn empathy from helping each other.

And so we're kind of robbing our kids of, you know, segregating them by ages in classrooms. Totally. And I agree because I'm 46 and I don't hang out with only 46 year olds, you know, I have friends, you know, all along the gamut. And I think it's a real rich experience for the children to have, because not only do you know, they learn empathy, but the little ones are looking up at the older ones of like, Oh, I'd love, you know, I want to be able to swing on the swing by myself or, you know, pick up, you know, a chicken all by myself. They're really learning so much from each other. I love that. Not too long ago, we had Patrice Porter on the show. She's the gardening grandma and she helps families. Yeah. So awesome. She lives in the Boreal forest of Canada. And she has this great gardening playbook for anybody, any beginning gardener, but really talks about the importance of play and gardening and growing your own food and all the things that teaches naturally with, you know, with regarding respect and delayed gratification and nurture and all those things. Sometimes we think when we think of like the rye method or some of the independent play that you're talking about, again, it's not about just letting kids do everything they want to do when they want to do it. It has nothing to do with that. Like we're not letting them defy safety rules or, you know, boundaries or things like that, but it's really just not having

everything so structured where we're teaching them as they grow up that they need to fit in this box, do this, you know, do certain things a certain way. Right. And just learn how to comply and behave for someone else. Yes, exactly. And it's interesting. You were talking about the gardening, you know, we just had five-year-olds sitting at the table talking about, you know, how they didn't like tomatoes, but they liked the tomatoes here that they're growing, that they're growing.

Oh my gosh. That's cute. From the tomato plant themselves. I'm like, oh, I like these ones.

Yeah. Everything tastes better when you, when you make it yourself. Well, this has just been so great. So tell us how we can get in touch with you, Erica, and learn more about your homeschool garden. Maybe there are other daycare providers or people in, uh, that are listening to the show that would like to learn how to, how to have a program like that. Yours has been going for 20 years. You developed it, right? Yes. Yes. We just started our 21st school year. So exciting. Yes.

Just like your journey, you know, you start, you know, raw and then you learn so much as you're going through it. Yes, more than happy to help others. And it's such a different way of being with children. I really just hope that it spreads. If there are daycares or parents, providers that are interested in learning more about how to start a homeschool garden on their own or a program like that, or if parents are interested in their homeschooling already and they want to be a part of your online homeschool community, they can go to your website and you have information there about that as well, right? That's fair. Yeah. And your online classes start?

We start them every two months. So it's a rolling period. So just because the start of the school year, by the time this episode airs, it'll be, you know, late October. School year's already started. Doesn't matter. You can still enroll. So that's cool too. All right. Well, thank you so much, Erica. Thank you. It's been a blast. We could go on forever. We actually could. We have so much more to talk about. So I have a feeling we'll be in contact and chatting again soon. Thanks for being here. Yeah, it was great. Thank you. Thank you for tuning in to the No Problem Parenting Podcast. Join Jackie next time for more tips, tools, and resources that will help you become the confident leader your kids crave you to be. Who do you know that we could support on their parenting journey. Like this podcast, subscribe, share, or leave a review of the show. Your support of the No Problem Parenting podcast pays it forward and helps us help more families.

Thank you.