Strength in Vulnerability: Starts with Naming Your Emotions with Dr J.J. Kelly Part 2/3

Hey there, welcome back, no problem parents, to Therapeutic Thursday, part two of a three-part series with Dr. J.J. Kelly of Unorthodox Inc.

Note that this episode is explicit, so if you're driving right now with littles in the car or you've got us on your speaker in your house, please pause this episode, click that little plus sign, the follow sign at the top of the app that you're listening to, and you can save it to listen later. Last week, Dr. J.J. talked about the mission of Unorthodox Inc. and her revolutionary approach, the Get Real program, which is based on dialectical behavioral therapy. You're going to hear today how she has condensed, shrunk up the typical two-year dialectical behavioral therapy approach into eight weeks. She's going to talk about the strength that is found in vulnerability, that vulnerability is not a weakness, emphasizing the power of naming emotions, which again, we talked about in part one.

Dr. JJ shares her insights on apologizing, shedding shame, and embracing pain as a teacher. So if you have a teen or a tween that's grappling with ongoing conflicts or rapid mood changes, struggling to relax, this episode is for you. Dr. JJ is going to address common concerns like difficulty recognizing choices, impulsive decisions, and self-medicating behaviors.

She challenges the parenting approach of being too nice and highlights the importance of discussing thoughts just as much as feelings with teens. So we extend our conversation today on emotional intelligence as a key component in building self-esteem, the significance of family values and holding true to your values, and the therapeutic role of humor in mental health. If you are navigating all the complexities of parenting teenagers, if you're a college student right now listening that's feeling overwhelmed, maybe you're numbing out your emotional pain, or if you're a corporate executive that just cannot relax and you're experiencing conflict in your relationships, this episode is for you. Be sure to check out Dr. JJ's book series.

We have a link in the show notes. There are free audible versions of her books on Spotify and be sure to tune in next Thursday where we talk with Dr. JJ about each one of the five books in her series. Hey there, parents. Are you ready to kick your parenting fears, doubts, and uncertainty to the curb? Do you want to get clear on why your child's behaving the way they are so that you can sleep at night and be more excited for the next day? Are you tired of battling with your kids? And are you ready to let go of control and allow them to make some mistakes without feeling like you're failing as a parent? Well, in just 30 days, you can learn how to transform your kiddo's behavior, prepare for, and even look forward to the misbehaviors and change the conversations in your home. Improve your relationship, connection, and reciprocal trust with your kids. Become a No Problem Parent today. All right, welcome back No Problem Parents part two with Dr. JJ. We're doing this four-part series. If you tuned in last week, we talked more about what DBT is, what Unorthodox Inc. is a little bit, and how DBT, Dialectical Behavioral Therapy, is at the core of what you do, Dr. JJ. So first of all, welcome back for part two.

Thank you. And I really want to jump right into this Venn diagram. We just do the two circle one that because dialectics is about opposites, a paradox, contradictions, two seemingly opposing things existing at the same time in an integrated, harmonious way. So I think, and dialectics thinks, people think, that life is full of contradictions.

And as a psychologist, I have learned that what do people do when they're afraid and they don't have the skills to effectively manage their fear? They push it to poles. whatever it is well i mean they also push it out right onto other people and other people right that comes from pushing it to the poles of like black white right wrong worthwhile worthless like we don't do this in dialectics we go for the integrated overlap part the gray because all of the world is gray so i'm teaching people how to manage their fear about the reality that it's all gray. Control is bullshit. Certainty does not exist. That scares people. And that's valid.

We're animals. We want everything to be what we think it is. And we think control is the way to do that. But that's really just self-medication of fear. Self-medication like booze or overworking. Like these things are not sustainable. You have to learn effective skills for managing your fear instead of being like i'm right i'm definitely right attachment clinging to being right that's a fear response i think the real smart people and dude i work with tons of geniuses but iq does not translate to eq that i have definitely learned thousands of times over you'd think the geniuses would have the eq skills they do not have emotional intelligence they because they intellectualize everything.

That's their defense is the intellectualization. Like being an intellect, that's a positive thing, but generally intellectualizing is a defense. I have had parents and honestly, I think mostly men who will say, and they're engineers and they're very intelligent and they're astute businessmen. And they will say to me, when I talk about in step three, change the conversation and empathy versus sympathy, they will say i don't have empathy well poor men the patriarchy hurts us all yeah men are programmed to only be able to do anger that's the only acceptable emotion for them to have that sucks because we're animals programmed for fear we forget that we're animals people okay you know like we're a ball but what is it it's like 84 percent identical dna to a mouse what that'll Humble you right there.

Like, this has to be taught. It doesn't matter how smart you are. And sometimes working with the smart people, like the really, really smart people and, you know, the adults that have been doing their bullshit for years and years and it's solidified in their brains, cutting new neural pathways can be tough because their defense structure is so thick and it's so sophisticated. so that's you know that's what we were talking about before it's like that dance you know it's it's complex because the world is complex because everything's a freaking contradiction there aren't any absolutes control doesn't exist so the best we can do is accept the reality that it's all great and learn the skills to manage our fear about not having control about the realization of it being gray and then know what our values are and know what our feelings are so that when we get emotionally activated we have the skills to still behave according to our values that's the thing we get emotionally activated and some switch flips and we act the asshole we all make mistakes in those moments, right? If we're emotionally activated enough, we do shit we regret. And you can say you don't regret it all you want. You can have the most brilliant rationalization for it,

but you feel the shame. You know inside you, you fuck up. So I'm a big proponent of keeping it simple. Just go and apologize. Do not say but. No buts in apologies. And it doesn't make you weak to apologize, it makes you strong. Like the shame weakens your character and your confidence and your self-esteem. And I don't do weak and strong really either because we're, you know, we're vulnerable and we're tough, but I don't know. Toughness is just, I'm just not interested in toughness like I used to be when I was younger. I'm more interested in the strength that comes with vulnerability, which includes admitting that you're afraid and doing it anyway, because that's what courage is. It's not fearlessness. It's you're afraid and you employ your courage to do it anyway. That's what gets you the confidence building points.

Yeah. You're afraid. So you've got to admit you're afraid. So now do we do, how do we bring that together? How do we, how do we do that? Well, I mean, you start with a practice, a daily multiple times a day like hundreds of times a day naming your emotions and even if you don't know what it is like go to a category of emotion and try a yes no maybe and if you get a bunch of yeses you're probably in the right department you know what i'm saying yeah yeah rocket science but it requires practice that's why dbt is so elusive to people still even though it was like mid 80s like it's not new it isn't it's new because there are still so few practitioners that do it and and even clinicians don't quite grasp what it is because it's so experiential it is not something you can read in a book um and get immediately i mean i did my best with the gifted misfits book to break it down like i've done the eight weeks the eight week course and I wrote the book for people who can't afford the course.

So I did my best, but like, you're going to read the book and then that's your like primer, right? Like for taking the class or like just learning from an experiential thing. Right. It helps to have somebody like lead you, but like you have to practice.

Start with naming your emotions every time you feel an emotion. And if you don't know, I don't know, it's not the end. People are like, I don't know. I'm like, well, guess.

Like, people think I don't know means I'm going to back off the question. You don't. Of course you don't know. That's why we're meeting.

You're not required to know. You are required to guess. Like, I'll help you. But you don't know is the beginning of the exploration, not the end, dude.

It's funny. People are so worried about making a mistake that they don't attempt. That is a fragility that does not serve you. The mistakes are such teachers in a minute, right?

Nothing like a painful mistake to teach you immediately one time to never do that again. You've got to welcome the pain to some extent because life has pain, right? Like, don't resist it. Just ask like, what is it?

Jesus, what is this? This really hurts. Or I'm really embarrassed. store like what is this form of pain teaching me in this moment if you can get curious about it instead of burying it immediately because it's uncomfortable then you're on your way to building emotional intelligence it's the concepts are simple the practices i wouldn't say difficult I would say scary. We say, oh, it's so hard. It's not hard. It's terrifying. Yes. But it ain't hard.

You don't learn to ride a bike by reading a book. Correct. You know, you might run, you might learn, you might start there. Oh, you know what? I'm scared to death to learn how to ride a bike.

I'm going to read this manual for riding bikes. Yeah. It's not the same as getting your ass on the seat and pedaling yeah and that's why it's so elusive to people because if they haven't done it they kind of don't get it and how could they and there's massive vulnerability in it and and i think for highly intelligent people academics and engineers and things that is so scary because they have prided themselves on being validated for being so smart or helpful because of their ingenuity or, you know, their wise advice or whatever. So it's super vulnerable. Give us an example, use an event diagram. Well, you know, DB, the definition of DBT is then mindfulness meets cognitive behavioral therapy. So that's the integration of it. We say, um, reasonable mind,

emotion mind so logic emotion equals wise mind now that's buddhist stuff you know um that's tick not han stuff marshall lenehan made dbt but tick not han is half of the two of the four modules so why mine is a buddhist concept of like that's kind of like your gut yeah knowing without analyzing i talk a lot about your gut because the gut doesn't lie the brain lies like crazy like crazy because that's that's how we like deal with fear if we're not skilled in managing fear we make a bullshit we believe our worry thoughts instead of identifying them as worry thoughts because i feel worried you gotta walk that brain stuff back through the emotion stuff So there's your integration is logic and emotion equals a wisdom.

Let's use it in a real life example. Like, let's say you've got a teenager right now that I'm going to fail. And the emotion is fear. How I would approach that is it's perfectly natural to have the wordy thought, I'm going to fail.

Everybody has that all the time. Just because you think it doesn't make it true. here's the shit of it is all the best lies have 80 truth so you probably have failed you have some evidence that you have failed so you like fearfully want to make an argument for failing again it's the most unskillful thing that we do as humans we actually fight for our bullshit that holds us back Well, JJ, I've definitely failed before.

Yeah, I know. And predicting the future with past failures is not a logical thing to do. How are you feeling right now that you're having all these worry thoughts? By the way, they're called worry thoughts.

So that's a cue that you might be in worry slash fear. Easy to name. But if you name the fear, then you've just separated thoughts and feelings in a way that you can have the distance from the thoughts to name them as thoughts. And we know just because we think it doesn't make it true.

Thoughts are not facts. They are up for debate. The worry is not up for debate. I don't tell you how you feel.

You identify how you feel. I validate it. I do not argue with feelings. I argue like crazy with thoughts those feelings generate the thoughts the feelings are real the thoughts may not be we all have light and dark in us and people are so into being perceived as a good person these days that it actually supersedes them being a good person now again good bad right wrong. I don't really do that. But I think that you are going to feel joy and pride and you're going to like yourself if you behave according to your values. So if we're going to do the good thing, you're a good person if you behave according to your values, because happy people act right.

We're generous and loving and hopefully funny, you know. But the light and dark, people are so worried about being perceived as a bad person that they deny that they have any dark anything to the public right but they deny it so hard they don't even acknowledge it in themselves and i really think that it's the buried dark thoughts that cause people to do really fucked up things i i want the acceptance of light and dark i invite the darkest of thoughts because they're often funny the urges i i can't tell you how many times i talk i use i say machete why are all my things do they include a machete or like i'll even say to kids i'll be like i want to choke you out right now for saying that like I'm not have I ever choked a kid of course not right I don't even I don't even actually have the urge like to do it I'm making a point that this is the dark thought that I'm having because you're using the skills that I taught you to self-harm there are a few things that piss me off quicker than that and everybody does it at some point because that's like anger turned inward they're often afraid to be angry outwardly because people worry about their skills to manage anger they think that being angry means they're out of control immediately yes they're not and we'll talk more about the anger piece but anger creates dark thoughts remember dark thoughts are not facts doesn't mean i'm gonna do it i love you

like I love the person in front of me I'm not actually gonna choke you out they know too they laugh we laugh I'm like oh man if you were like my brother right now I'd give you such a noogie like oh like I'd steamroll over you or you know like I just talk about it like in a real way but they know they're never threatened and it invites them to bring out their dark thoughts people say Oh, a safe space. You never have conflict. That's what a safe space is? No. A safe space is where you can say anything out loud and not be judged.

Yeah. I might have an opinion on your thought. Yeah, of course. My whole job is opinions. But I'm not attached to being right. If you say, no, that's not resonating in me, it's garbage. Fine. On to the next. Let's try something else.

Like it's not about feeding my ego. I don't charge people money to feed my ego. Like that's my job. I'm good. Like I don't need you to like me. You are paying to learn these skills to make your life better. Liking me does not come into the equation.

I think that I, I legit am a great role model, particularly for young people. But now it for everybody, I'm a great role model because I act according to my values, which means I like myself and I don't even have to say it. People can feel that they're attracted to that. Want to know, Hey, how do I have that?

And a lot of times that does translate into idealizing me, which I address because you can look up to me particularly in the beginning you know them wanting to be like me quote unquote helps them start the practice of using the skills for my approval i'm fine with that in the beginning because it gets them doing new shit yes right um at a certain point i address the idealization because it can be disempowering like oh jj's so amazing only she can do it and i'm like no no no Dude, you don't even know the ways that I have fucked up in my life.

If I can do it, you definitely can. That's how that really shakes out. And do not put me on a pedestal to fake relieve yourself from the responsibility of making your life better. There it is.

If I can do the skills, you can do the skills. I'm requiring you do the skills, not for me, for you. You don't answer to me. You make a commitment in front of me.

I'm the witness of it. But that commitment is to you. And yes, will I bring it up? Yeah. You bet your ass I'll bring it up because you made a commitment to yourself. And I'm in the business of helping people do what they say they're going to do because it increases self-esteem and self-confidence. So yeah, I'm going to hold you to it. My job is about accountability. Ultimately, I pass that to you because you are now in a practice of accountability and acting according to your values.

this is a two-year thing dbt in its like purest form is like two hours a week for two years with a whole bunch of phone calls i don't do in between and i have crunched it down over 20 years to eight weeks we don't have time for idealizing me to distract you from taking accountability for these skills it is so intellectually dense we have a lot to do when i first learned of dbt and a co-therapist, a friend, not co-therapist. I was never a therapist, counselor, friend of mine at the agency I worked for. She really knew what she was doing. She knew how to do it, but it frustrated the heck out of her that it was a two-year process.

No kidding. Who the hell can afford that? That you have been able to condense this into eight weeks is awesome. Again, people, when you go to JJ, whether you are, you know, you're a youngin, you're in college right now about to leave college, or you are an executive that's just kind of tired of it all and wants to get real. You need to be ready. You need to be willing. She will show you how she will help you get there. It really takes an investment in yourself because this isn't one of those programs that you go on and on and on and on and on with, you know, you said everybody starts with the basic or the, the intro. There are options to do intermediate and beyond and continue in other ways but it is like you better be ready to have your poop in a group and show up and do the work and it's teaching the skills so you can have them and go like I'm here if you need me or whatever but you know I did the therapy thing for years and years and and saw people for years but I don't I don't agree with that kind of dependency I don't think it's necessary I don't think it's the future. I don't, I mean, if you have the resources and you want to do it, cool.

But if you don't, where are you going to get taught what you need to know for life? You have a kiddo, teen, young adult that is in therapy right now, and it's not going well. You're not seeing results. They're still down on themselves. They're still feeling like crap.

they're still engaging in self-injurious behaviors or relying on or have friendships with peers that are bringing them right down that are just keeping them stuck how long do you want to send your kiddo to that therapy and watch that happen yeah what have you got to lose for med on top of meds like no no no right exactly so if you're looking for some action and really want to get real i suggest you go to Dr. JJ. We are going to wrap up our series with Dr. JJ next week. And we're going to talk about her holy shit book series. She's got something for pretty much everybody in this, in this series, in the program. And so I'm going to highly recommend that you guys reach out to Dr. JJ Kelly at drjjkelly.com. Learn about all her different programs and more information.

You can get her books and everything from there. You can download the feelings wheel that we talked about last week. That's a super handy thing to have hanging on your refrigerator for the whole family. And we're going to, we'll get back at it next week to wrap up the series with talking about my kid's a misfit. My kid is cutting. Those two right there. Don't wait till next week for the episode to air. You can get these all on Spotify as audio books or audio podcasts. And then we're also going to talk about anger and narcissists and what women really want. So we'll see you guys next week. Thanks JJ. Thank you.