Thoughts vs Feelings: Getting Real with Dr. JJ Kelly of Unorthodocs, Inc [EXPLICIT] Part 1/3

Hey, welcome back, No Problem Parents, to Therapeutic Thursdays. And today's episode is explicit, but I wanted to allow my guest today to present her approach authentically. Today's guest is Dr. JJ Kelly from Unorthodox Inc.

She's going to share the mission of her company and the revolutionary approach of the Get Real program, which is based on dialectical behavioral therapy. In today's episode, we're discussing the power of emotional intelligence, and Dr. JJ is going to share the inspiration behind Unorthodox Inc. Do you have a teen or tween that's struggling with ongoing conflicts and relationships, intense and rapid mood changes, the inability to relax, trouble recognizing choice, holding in anger or blowing up at others, impulsive or reactive decisions that they often regret?

Are they self-medicating with substances like food, sugar, alcohol? Are they feeling overwhelmed? Are you feeling overwhelmed? Maybe your kiddo's avoiding responsibilities, people, or events, and maybe they're numbing out in response to fear or anger.

If you're worried, if you're nervous around your kiddos, if you're unsure what to do or how to talk to your teen, go to drjjkelly.com. Learn more about her Get Real program and her book series. Today's episode is part one of three in my candid conversation with Dr. JJ.

Be sure to click the plus sign or the follow sign on the podcast app that you're listening to so that you get the alert when part two and part three of this conversation are published. I've known Dr. JJ for quite some time. She's been in both of the No Problem Parenting books.

Dr. JJ and I are both from the Midwest, but she has been in California for about 20 some years, and I had the opportunity to go spend some time with her last summer. She is authentic as they come, and I'm just really excited to have her as a regular guest on the No Problem Parenting Podcast. She's also an engaging speaker and most recently was interviewed by Marianne Williamson.

You can find that interview on her website. Go to drjjkelly.com. Welcome to the No Problem Parenting Podcast. From toddler tantrums to teenage eye rolls, this podcast is your go-to for updated and old school tips and tools that are going to help you become the confident leader your kids crave you to be. I'm your host, Jackie Finneman, a 30-year counselor turned parenting coach, and I've got a lot to share, including hundreds of resources that you have access to right from your home and strategies that are going to boost your confidence and energize you. We're going to turn your parenting problems into no problem, one episode at a time. I'm excited to introduce Dr. JJ Kelly to you all. You've heard her before.

She's been on my podcast way back in episode 59, where we talked about why trying to be your kid's best friend is causing them anxiety. Go back and listen to that episode. Dr. J.J. Kelly is the powerhouse of all things DBT, relationships, happy people, acting right, loving yourselves, liking yourselves, and she's not your average mental health guru. She is a trailblazer and a rebel against the norm. You guys, she's the visionary behind Unorthodox Inc. Dr. J.J. Kelly, I can't say enough about you. Welcome to the show. Thanks. That's a hell of an intro. Appreciate that.

I don't know how to be a cheerleader enough for your program. I share your Instagram, your books. We're going to get into all of these things. And I think sometimes people are like, oh my gosh, she cusses and curses and swears. And she, you know, like I can't have my kid talking to her. That's too inappropriate. And I am telling you parents, your kids are cussing cursing and swearing. They're cutting, they're using, they're negative talking to themselves.

Why wouldn't you want to lean right into that and connect them with someone who's going to get it and help them? Tell us about the Get Real program and why you use the approach that you do with teens and young adults. Well, it's, I mean, I think the heart of it is that I wanted to be the shrink that I never had. The maker of the vagina monologue said something once, to give somebody the thing that you needed most is so deeply healing to you.

And I don't do it for that. I think generosity is specific that way. Like, I don't think you can give for the receiving of giving. That's not giving, you know?

Like, it can't be like that. It has to, like, be give it out and let it go. It's totally for them. And not expect anything.

No attachment to outcome of any kind. No attachment to being right. Just giving that love and whatever knowledge, wisdom that you have, and just see how it lands. And I think that authenticity invites authenticity. And that's the only way to heal that authenticity is a healing vehicle for self and others and the world.

And I mean, nobody accepts who they are. We all got hangups, but like, why am I going to spend my life hiding my flaws like I've been told forever to stop cursing or that I curse like a man or that I curse I haven't heard this kind of cursing since I was in the service but like veterans love me you know farmers love you know like that's a sexist statement so these isms in the world about the cursing like your kids are cursing by the way there's going to be cursing in schools within 20 years mark my words this is like proper way of what's proper for me what is and I don't think of things as like proper but like if there is a concept of proper I agree with it's I act according to my values and I'm quite disciplined with that because I think that's the way to stay real and to heal like I was saying before so I do act according to my values in a very disciplined way that to me is proper and no one defines that no one defines that for me as much as people want to you know like the the the weak are always guilting the strong into making themselves smaller for them and their comfort. Like what? We're all going to go down? Like why don't we all raise each other up? And I think the way to do that is to be real, flaws and all. I demonstrate through living, not just clinically, but personally, that I accept myself, flaws and all,

the strengths and the weaknesses. And you know what? I don't even have to say that that invites you to do the same. And then we all shiny. Exactly. I just, I'm a magnet to you because your authenticity comes through, shines through. So I know what I see is what I get. JJ, you come in sometimes gently and sometimes with a two by four. A bulldozer. Yeah. And sometimes, well, I don't know if it's a bulldozer because I have never felt flattened by you. Oh, good.

You know, and at the same time, it's like you really are able to see people, the flaws and the things that they know they have and they're ready to work on. And then you just guide them through. You help people really like themselves. That's the goal always.

And here I think is some secret sauce is I have a deep respect. Okay, your defenses, right? Like you're beautiful and skillful and positive with the people you work with. You just do it to yourself.

And that's a fear response. When people worry, they get controlling and they either control their environment and or themselves, or they just project their shit out in the form of criticism of something or themselves. but if how you treated others matched how you treated yourself then all the worries of the world would go away if everybody did that acted according to their values and treated others and themselves with the same kind of love and respect and humor i think then the whole damn world would be healed it really would that's the happy people act right and global healing comes from teaching people the skills to like themselves.

Because happy people don't say shitty things to other, you know, I've been pissed off because I got worn down by some negative talk. The exposure to that. But I'll say sorry. If I cross a line and I hurt somebody, I'll say sorry.

That does not reduce my strength in any way. If anything, it increases my confidence and self-esteem to know how to have what we say in in uh with the advanced students the docs of unorthodox we say eat your shit sandwich with dignity that's like my version of humble pie right it's like it's like to say sorry without a butt without excuses and you don't even it doesn't always mean you're wrong either like that might have hurt your feelings and okay i didn't intend to it still happened. So I still want to be accountable for how it landed to some extent.

You know, I also will say to some people, you know, because sometimes people like, get wounded as a performative act to make you to manipulate you. Sometimes, if I get that hit, I'll be like, yeah, I'm not sure how much responsibility I'm willing to take for that. But when it's hurting somebody by accident, I'll be more often than not, I'm like, Oh my god, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I hope you know that that is not what I meant to do. I get it. I did it anyway. Let me make it up to you. That is so character building and confidence building and nobody does it. Yeah. I mean, my advanced students do it and that's amazing because so many of them are millennials. My corporate execs do it, which is amazing because there are a lot like adolescents a lot of times, and they're in a corporate environment where admitting any sort of mistake or that you hurt to bring up feelings that all in those environments is not done because those environments are so top down, hierarchical, patriarchal, that they think of even bringing up feelings as inappropriate. It's just an energy statement. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So at the core,

at the heart of everything that you teach is emotional intelligence. That's right. So walk us through what that is, the importance of emotional intelligence. And then how do we get started?

How does that look? Oh, everybody starts in the same place, whether you're a CEO or you're in middle school or you just graduated from undergrad and you're lost that that purgatory after undergrad. Nobody talks about that. So hard.

Everybody starts in the same place. Naming your emotions. That's the mindfulness core. and it's really important. I think we'll probably get to this, but in naming the emotions, shrinks have dropped the ball a little on that, in my opinion, because so many of these, I had to make my own emotions wheel and I love these mostly because they look like a record. I want to get them like on a thing so you can spin them and find your emotion, like keep it on the fridge.

Oh, I love this so much. Printed mine. I stick them on my wall because so often, and I think you're getting into this we're telling everybody to start their sentences with I feel go I don't even know what the feeling is using I feel to like back people off like you don't get to tell me how I feel but they're saying thoughts after I feel so um I feel attacked I feel like you're not listening these are not emotions they are and it's like it's cheating it's like bypassing intellectualizing emotions in order to appear like you're emotionally intelligent and get it.

And then you're the higher, you're the higher intelligence one with the dummy that you're dealing with. I mean, the judgment is built in. It's so shitty. I feel attacked. You don't get to assume the intention of the other person. I get that a lot because my job is challenging people.

So, you know, not so much anymore, but when people get defensive, they say shit that they don't really mean in the end, you know, and I get it. Like I say things that are challenging their defense structure that has kept them safe for so long. That's what I was saying before. I have a respect for why defenses are born.

They keep us from dying in our childhood. You know, like they help us survive our childhood. The problem is we keep using them after 18. And they don't work anymore because we're not children.

We're not dependent on other people for our food, shelter, water, emotional safety, whatever. so that would not work but we keep them with us because we're wounded right and then nobody really taught us how to let that shit go i'm not walking around without my armor are you crazy it's a scary world out there not going out there naked but then that armor just gets heavier and heavier as the years go on and that's what i was saying before like the the protection becomes the cage and now And we have these stories that we tell ourselves that don't allow us to grow out of our defenses.

So when I confront someone and they're defensive, I get it. I have empathy for that. Christ, I've been doing this 20 plus years. I expect it to some extent.

Plus my delivery is so noble that of course it raises people's defenses. Plus DBT goes right for the heart of things that raises people's defenses. So it does get worse before it gets better because people fight with it until they're met with, no, still no. Still no on that bullshit story.

Sorry. Like, it's my job to make sure that your bullshit doesn't stand. I'm not cosigning on that. That's what shrinks do.

They cosign. They take money to cosign on your bullshit because they're too nervous to confront you. But that's our duty. I don't know how these people sleep at night.

I really don't. How do you take money for enabling? That blows my mind. Anyway, so the defenses rise. And then we get at what are the feelings that are going? Well, I just feel attacked. Well, okay, that's not a that's not a feeling. It's a thought. If you think you're being attacked, how does that make you feel?

So I can use this intellectualized bullshit that they've probably been taught by another shrink and chain them from the thought to the emotion without judging, without shaming that. Like, okay, that's not a thought because, or that's not a feeling because you're assuming my intention. You don't get to do that without my confirmation. This is reality.

So, okay, if you think I'm attacking you, how does that make you feel? And then by identifying it as a thought versus a feeling, that makes it up for debate. You may or may not be accurate with that thought. Thoughts are not facts, just because we see them.

Now it's up for debate. And now their defenses have gone down a little because now they've named their emotion, which brings you a little closer to baseline from emotional activation or dysregulation. You get off your baseline. I said something to challenge you.

You're like, what the hell? And then you're like, I just feel attacked. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. And I'm not retaliating either. The whoa, whoa, whoa is even worse.

I was just going to say that. That doesn't mean you're coming at it with resistance and there's going to be this defensive. I'm not going to pass a baton. I'm not scared of you. Like, say whatever you want. I mean, you don't get to swear at me or call me names or break my furniture or anything. Those are like my three rules.

but yeah you we can argue for sure I expect it I welcome it because the more I know about your defense structure the easier it is for me to specifically be useful to you and help you so now we've named the emotion it's probably in the fear camp maybe they're brave enough to say anger a lot of times that kind of anger with an attacked comment like that usually is armor and then we get to fear from there but you know if they want to stay with anger that's cool too like we can start there and i'll validate that sure i can see why what i said pissed you off absolutely sure um now they're closer to baseline and we can apply skills they already are starting to question whether i'm attacking them because they we know each other i've never done that in the past so now there's this like conflict inside them there's cognitive dissonance because they want to make me the asshole because they're activated emotionally yeah right yet they know i'm completely on their side and i have a history with them of a hundred percent of the time not attacking them so now that they're calmer they're starting to debate within themselves whether i really am the asshole they seconds ago thought I was. Yeah. It's such a beautiful, intricate dance of trust.

And, and their courage is, I'm such a, oh man, I'm so excited by courage and the courage that it takes to question yourself in a moment of emotional activation is emotionally intelligent. yeah get kids doing that it shows that the whole world could do it you have the right person to guide you you have the skills presented to you and dude the right person is so important because so many people are insecure enough to be attached to being right i think i'm right all the time yet I can't confirm that because what's right for me isn't necessarily right for you we don't do that binary stuff too right wrong black white the dbt is all about the integration the yes and the overlap the maybe the great and I think when you're when you get to that when you you got to do that dance between, you know, the therapist and the, you know, and the client, the person,

the patient, the doc, or you call them docs. And then you, you challenge that you're like, well, wait, how can I be so ticked off at her? And at the same time, be so thankful or intrigued. And then at the same time, be like, wait, that's a thought. Like I'm, I'm figuring out that was a thought. That's not a feeling. I don't even believe that about myself. Now I can get to the feeling and actually identify that feeling. I feel. If you're going to do an accurate and skillful I feel statement, the word right after the word feel is an emotion. Happy, sad, angry, shame, whatever. And there are so many of them. You could choose whatever works for you. And I, and you know, once we get people naming the core ones, you know, there are 10 under there. Start expanding your vocabulary. That's a mindfulness training skill too. You name the emotion and then go on. I feel like you're an asshole is usually the example I use because of old couples therapy stuff. Okay. You are welcome to your opinion on that because opinions are not facts. If you say,

I say, I think you're being an asshole often. You know, I think you're acting like kind of an asshole right now. Or I think that's pretty nasty behavior. I say that much more than calling someone an asshole.

I usually call it like asshole behavior. But in this example, I feel like you're an asshole. Like or that after feel is your cue that it's a thought. and if you cross out the word feel and you insert the word think and the sentence still works hey it's a thought not a feeling so that is so important christ if everybody just did that it would change things quite a lot take responsibility for your emotional experience that makes you more emotionally intelligent not weak and by the way feminine doesn't mean weak people. Vulnerability is strength, regardless of how we've been programmed. Come on. The more you know, knowledge is power. That includes emotions. It's not logic over emotion because everyone has emotions. It's not logical to deny that. Plus, people disrupt when they do. Come on. The proof is in the pudding. You're losing your shit. Your face is all red. Whoa, dude. Dial it back.

that does not that is not a good color on you that's loss of control oh yeah and then you say all kinds of shit that creates messes and then you have shame about it do you apologize and get rid of the shame or do you bury the shame and then spike your anxiety hiding it for the purpose of saving face and to pretend and like just kind of hope it all goes away and then we just talk hope people don't apologize are you kidding me that could not be further than the truth And what I love about our partnership here, JJ, is that you're helping the 10 and ups, adults, executive coaches, executive leaders, executive team, you know, supervisors, managers, corporate.

You're helping tend to that and really learn about themselves and how they influence others. I'm here for the parents and show you how. I wrote a book for the parents. That's pretty much. Yeah. And I love your book and I help walk parents through that book as well as, but I'm really here to help you because I think it begins with the parents. You can get, you can send your kid to therapy. You can sign them up for something, but it does. That's not where it ends. If you truly want a relationship with your kid, you got to be doing some work at home on yourself too.

and the system of the family you know the the feelings wheel being on the fridge that's not a hypothetical i have people do that and then the whole family is naming their emotions and the whole family has this shared language i mean yeah each individual that i work with there's a ripple of their behaviors their emotional intelligence out in their world yeah but the family system could be healed from the core doing it all together there's no age like I have a five-year-old now client like there you you there's no too young to start naming your emotions there are kids books about emotions there are age-appropriate books all along the way and I don't swear in front of kids under 10 either right well and you're swearing isn't for the sake of just swearing so like no no no you're throwing it all it's just who it's just who you are and you're it's part of the get real like you know we're just not going to skirt around stuff they need you to they need to know and i teach this with parents they need to know parents and adults and therapists and teachers and whoever that we are strong enough within ourselves and our own emotional health and intelligence that we can handle whatever they are throwing our way their deepest darkest thoughts feelings bring it right like they need to know I get goosebumps every time I say that to somebody they need to know that we can handle that and if you can't that's okay because maybe

you have a trauma story maybe you have then get some support for yourself so that you can truly be there for your kid and once that happens game changer yes game changer so we're gonna go we're to wrap up for now. We're going to go into our next episode. The next episode, we're going to talk about that Venn diagram and share more a little bit about what to expect when you start working with you and using DBT. All right, that's it for today's episode of the No Problem Parenting Podcast. Hey, thanks guys for tuning in. If you found value in today's episode, click the subscribe button and share it with other parents who might need a little boost. Stay connected on our socials by following at No Problem Parents for more parenting tips and get your free download of the 60 ways to respond to your kids without losing your cool, go to NoProblemParents.com.

Until next time, remember, your confidence comes from embracing both successes and setbacks. So take a deep breath, embrace the chaos, and remember, you got this. Thank you.